Should all radio work be unpaid?

[MrGongGong]

Quite so.

The last time I was interviewed on the radio it was the excellent Robert Worby doing the honours. He had taken the trouble to go to two performances of the work we were talking about, as well as the dress rehearsal of the second, as well as doing all the necessary background reading necessary to ask intelligent questions and to know how to follow up the answers. He was then involved in editing the interview down quite considerably while retaining the points he thought would be of most interest to the radio audience, as well as putting the entire programme together. This is his job. (And it isn't particularly well paid, particularly in comparison with TV presenters.) If a forum member here makes a factual error it doesn't matter, and usually he/she gets corrected fairly quickly. That isn't the case with a broadcast presenter. So no, neither musicians nor presenters should do their jobs for nothing. To imply that they should is to devalue the work that they do even more than it already is devalued by society in general.

What we have here on the forum is an informal conversation between friends, many of whom have specialist knowledge of one kind or another, and any exchange of knowledge and ideas is going in at least two directions. On the other hand, not infrequently I'm contacted by music students I don't know and asked to give feedback to the scores and/or recordings they send me. My answer is always: but doing this is part of how I earn my living, and I've organised things so that I don't have so much of it that it starts eating into the time I have for my own work, so no. The distinction is very clear in my mind.

Worby will work for Whisky (allegedly)
He really does know his onions though

[Once Was 4]

Why should the musicians be paid? Wouldn’t they play better if they did it for “love”?

AS we used to say "you do not get a free basket of groceries in Asda because you love playing music">

[Dave2002]

Who is to decide what value to place on people and their activities? Perhaps looking at Maslow's theories might help - https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html - but then, perhaps not. Some people may be quite/very happy with their basic needs (food, drink, shelter) met, while others may wish for more. Can we really say that radio "workers" are paid too much, and should therefore work for nothing? Maybe some are overpaid - but that's the same for many people in many different types of jobs. What about musicians? They clearly don't do anything "useful", so should they not be paid at all? We all place values on things and behaviours by rather complex methods. A classical music lover may not wish to pay a jazz musician, but some might temper their views by recognising the worth of others as human beings, even if they don't value the activities of the others themselves. Perhaps it's all part of being in a community.

[french frank]

Well. I don't understand the rationale of the OP. What other workers should be unpaid? Footballers?

[teamsaint]

Well. I don't understand the rationale of the OP. What other workers should be unpaid? Footballers?

There are plenty of unpaid radio presenters and footballers.

Actually, it does lead into some interesting areas, such as charity workers abroad, volunteers in the public sector in the UK, and so on.

[cloughie]

Well. I don't understand the rationale of the OP. What other workers should be unpaid? Footballers?

No, but top of my list would be comedians. Too many of them, most not very funny, and many have gone through higher education. Some even trained as Doctors - a right waste of money, yes! Are we short of Doctors in the NHS - yes! Are we short of comedians - no.

[Ein Heldenleben]

And comedians are some of the highest paid engertainers around - some of the arena comedians (Kay , McIntyre ) mist be pulling in a million a night

[Mal]

Who is to decide what value to place on people and their activities? ...

The algorithms can decide.

Lanier suggests that if you listen to a jazz musician in any format (on radio, utube,...) then he should get paid. Any time someone views your post, you should get paid! Otherwise the only people making the money are those running the "Siren servers" - Google and BBC executives and similar. You might be sitting on a fat pension so you don't need to get paid, but what about a struggling musician without a pension?

[Once Was 4]

There are plenty of unpaid radio presenters and footballers.

Actually, it does lead into some interesting areas, such as charity workers abroad, volunteers in the public sector in the UK, and so on.

Sadly, there are a lot of unpaid musicians as well. For years, the MU has fought 'pay to play'. OK, these are probably wannabees in the rock sector but, expoitation is exploitation.

I was involved in the early days of 'student attachments' where student players came in to rehearsals and played under the supervision of one of the regulars (I had a couple under my wing - I hope that this did not put them off!) Those opposed to this idea said "mark my words - 'they' will soon be trying to get them used as extras and deputies without pay in performances!" Well, it never happened where I was but I understand that this was tried on elsewhere.

Much later a wannabee conductor put together a 'professional' orchestra (made up of students and even a few schoolchildren) to give a concert in a large Northern concert hall. I was free that evening and was sent along, with two others, by the MU to monitor things. A colleague actually asked a few "are you getting union rates?" and was told where to go in terms of "we love to play music and will be happy to take what we are given!"

A good job; the conductor fled abroad the next day and the hall management impounded the box office receipts to pay themselves for the hall hire and the rest went to the (internationally known) soloist. OK, some of the orchestra were not worth paying and nobody starved or missed a standing order because of not being paid; but some had paid quite a lot in train fares, petrol etc., to get themselves and their instruments to the hall. And they did not get those instruments free in packets of cornflakes. If that crooked conductor did not want to pay he should have found an amateur orchestra to wave his stick at (that particular city has several good ones).

[Joseph K]

Sorry that I can't buy S_A's prediction

Then humans are doomed!

[french frank]

Could we be clear what the OP meant by "all radio work"? All presenters, all musicians, all actors/readers, all producers/production staff, all technical staff? Or what? I'm just not clear why radio work should be unpaid.

[Joseph K]

I've done forced volunteer work ('workfare') in the past and now, having been on ESA for a number of years, am forcing myself to volunteer... it's rubbish. Of course, if the whole of society was organised on a voluntary basis that's great, but volunteering in the context of our society, where labour is disempowered through the existence of an industrial reserve army in the form of unemployed and underemployed people, is not good.

[gradus]

I've done forced volunteer work ('workfare') in the past and now, having been on ESA for a number of years, am forcing myself to volunteer... it's rubbish. Of course, if the whole of society was organised on a voluntary basis that's great, but volunteering in the context of our society, where labour is disempowered through the existence of an industrial reserve army in the form of unemployed and underemployed people, is not good.

I may well be misunderstanding you but I think volunteering is to be encouraged. Perhaps voluntary work is depriving the unemployed of paid employment in some cases but I don't think that is correct on the whole. For example I know many people who cannot find paid work but who volunteer with charities. The charities cannot afford to pay wages but are willing to offer voluntary work and with it the chance to gain experience that may eventually help the volunteer find a job, isn't that empowering 'an industrial army reserve'?

[Joseph K]

I may well be misunderstanding you but I think volunteering is to be encouraged. Perhaps voluntary work is depriving the unemployed of paid employment in some cases but I don't think that is correct on the whole. For example I know many people who cannot find paid work but who volunteer with charities. The charities cannot afford to pay wages but are willing to offer voluntary work and with it the chance to gain experience that may eventually help the volunteer find a job, isn't that empowering 'an industrial army reserve'?

No, because it belies the reason for unemployment in the first place, which is structural and systemic, rather than an individual's failings e.g. lack of experience, skills etc. (which is of course an individualistic, neoliberal way of looking at things, that it is all about personal responsibility).

I volunteer at the Job Club of my local library and had a nice chat with a man who regularly turns up, about how when he started working (the 70s) he walked in an out of jobs with great ease, in one instance, the manager asked what it would take for him to stay! Which I am fairly sure is unthinkable now.

[ahinton]

Then humans are doomed!

What? Just because I don't buy into that? I doubt that very much! That said, on what might your evidence to the contrary be based, just out of curiosity?