Good is NOT the word!

[Hornspieler]

“Good” is NOT the word!

[/We all react to performances or opinions in different ways, but as fellow forum members we should not upset each other, or annoy our genial Hosts, by starting a feud which may upset the rest of us, so I am starting this thread in Platform 3 to express our reactions to certain current events or performances.

In my little Christmas stocking filler, “Bravo Maestro” there is one chapter on Music Critics and I quote from one of the paragraphs in that section which shows how to speak the truth by implication but does not to offend subject of the statement ….

…I stopped by at the Wigmore Hall to hear Mr. _____- s new piano sonata.

“Good” is [B] not/[B] the word!”

[ahinton]

“Good” is NOT the word!

We all react to performances or opinions in different ways, but as fellow forum members we should not upset each other, or annoy our genial Hosts, by starting a feud which may upset the rest of us, so I am starting this thread in Platform 3 to express our reactions to certain current events or performances.

In my little Christmas stocking filler, “Bravo Maestro” there is one chapter on Music Critics and I quote from one of the paragraphs in that section which shows how to speak the truth by implication but does not to offend subject of the statement ….

The implicit double-edged sword here reminds me of the word "invaluable"...

[Sir Velo]

“Good” is NOT the word!

[/We all react to performances or opinions in different ways, but as fellow forum members we should not upset each other, or annoy our genial Hosts, by starting a feud which may upset the rest of us, so I am starting this thread in Platform 3 to express our reactions to certain current events or performances.

In my little Christmas stocking filler, “Bravo Maestro” there is one chapter on Music Critics and I quote from one of the paragraphs in that section which shows how to speak the truth by implication but does not to offend subject of the statement ….

[/COLOR]

Perhaps not the most enlightening piece of musical criticism! Aren't critics paid to er, well, criticise? At the very least, some attempt should be made to provide an honest review of the performance and composition before the public.

[french frank]

Perhaps not the most enlightening piece of musical criticism! Aren't critics paid to er, well, criticise? At the very least, some attempt should be made to provide an honest review of the performance and composition before the public.

I suppose the trick is to say things which are constructive; but (as HS implies) it depends absolutely on judging correctly how the criticism will be received; basically, three ways:

1. 'Thought-provoking. Thank you.'

2. 'You may think that, but I'm not too bothered' (cf WA Mozart: "I pay no attention to other people's praise or criticism: I compose according to my own feelings.")

3. 'Who the hell do you think you are to be telling me how I should compose MY MUSIC? Have you ever composed a symphony? No, I didn't think so '

[Hornspieler]

Perhaps not the most enlightening piece of musical criticism! Aren't critics paid to er, well, criticise? At the very least, some attempt should be made to provide an honest review of the performance and composition before the public.

My aim in starting this thread on Platform 3 is to include any item on Radio 3 or even current world events - football, cricket disasters, politics, etc.

But here is my view on last night's Radio 3 broadcast by the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra:



Part 1 Elgar and Walton - Wonderful Playing and interpretation!

Part 2 Tchaikovsky Piano Concerto No 1 - Atrocious! - I do not believe I have ever
heard a worse performance of this great masterpiece!

Feel free to disagree with my comments - its the reason I have started this thread - to stop a lot of bad feeling.

HS

[vinteuil]

.

... I like the unanswerable (usually misattributed to Abraham Lincoln) - "For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like."

French Frank's #3 can always be answered by Sam: Johnson -

"You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables."


.

[vinteuil]

The implicit double-edged sword here reminds me of the word "invaluable"...

... priceless.

.

[ardcarp]

I understand perfectly the reasoning behind this thread, HS. I hope it works out. After all we thick-skinned Forumistas don't find that dancing on the head of a pin comes second-nature. All I can bring myself to say right now is that I heard a less-than-good performance of a well-known violin concerto by a much-loved player...quite recently on R3. Probably not the sort of thing you had in mind.

[french frank]

French Frank's #3 can always be answered by Sam: Johnson -

"You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables."

But you'll probably be paying for it!

It's a matter of temperament how one criticises the efforts of others. Here (on the forum), one frequently sees a total lack of humility in the critics: the boot goes in - brutally.

[ahinton]

... priceless.

That, too!

[jayne lee wilson]

.

... I like the unanswerable (usually misattributed to Abraham Lincoln) - "For those who like that sort of thing, that is the sort of thing they like."

French Frank's #3 can always be answered by Sam: Johnson -

"You may abuse a tragedy, though you cannot write one. You may scold a carpenter who has made you a bad table, though you cannot make a table. It is not your trade to make tables."


.

Absolutely the quote I would have chosen myself, especially to those who wrongheadedly like to rubbish "critics" or "reviewers" in a generally dismissive way, as if they never have anything useful or enjoyable to say. I've spent many hours reading such things, and I feel they've enriched my knowledge, enjoyment and listening skills. Including when - perhaps especially when - I disagree with them.

With a "new piano sonata", or new music generally I do see things differently, as part of any review should include some descriptive and contextual guide to the style and character of the music itself, revealing of the reviewer's relative knowledge or ignorance of the given composer's output etc., before trying to characterise the individual qualities of the performance.

My own approach to commentary on music and/or performances is - to keep an open mind (about widely differing compositional styles, or, say, performance styles and traditions in classical repertoire), and if anything, to tend to err on the side of spiritual generosity: to try to understand a given interpretative approach on its own terms...

[Serial_Apologist]

Absolutely the quote I would have chosen myself, especially to those who wrongheadedly like to rubbish "critics" or "reviewers" in a generally dismissive way, as if they never have anything useful or enjoyable to say. I've spent many hours reading such things, and I feel they've enriched my knowledge, enjoyment and listening skills. Including when - perhaps especially when - I disagree with them.

With a "new piano sonata", or new music generally I do see things differently, as part of any review should include some descriptive and contextual guide to the style and character of the music itself, revealing of the reviewer's relative knowledge or ignorance of the given composer's output etc., before trying to characterise the individual qualities of the performance.

My own approach to commentary on music and/or performances is - to keep an open mind (about widely differing compositional styles, or, say, performance styles and traditions in classical repertoire), and if anything, to tend to err on the side of spiritual generosity: to try to understand a given interpretative approach on its own terms...

In that, if you don't mind me saying jayne, you have an extraordinarily broadminded spirit, much more so than me, and probably most of us.

[teamsaint]

Critics are like every other occupation. some good, some bad.

Anybody interested in critical approaches, and what( for some people) will be radically new and different ways to approach the arts , culture and language, might usefully treat themselves to this wonderful volume.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-theory-third-introduction-Beginnings/dp/0719079276/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525976589&sr=8-2&keywords=Beginning.+Theory

£2.80 for the third edition.

[doversoul1]

Critics are like every other occupation. some good, some bad.

Anybody interested in critical approaches, and what( for some people) will be radically new and different ways to approach the arts , culture and language, might usefully treat themselves to this wonderful volume.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Beginning-theory-third-introduction-Beginnings/dp/0719079276/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1525976589&sr=8-2&keywords=Beginning.+Theory

£2.80 for the third edition.

Beginning theory has been helping students navigate through the thickets of literary and cultural theory for well over a decade now.

There is quite a lot of overlapping between literary and cultural studies. Is there any cross-reference that can be made between literary criticism and music criticism? I don’t mean reviews.

[teamsaint]

Beginning theory has been helping students navigate through the thickets of literary and cultural theory for well over a decade now.

There is quite a lot of overlapping between literary and cultural studies. Is there any cross-reference that can be made between literary criticism and music criticism? I don’t mean reviews.

Thats something I have wondered for a while. Richard Barrett gave some useful reponses a while back,which I haven’t really followed up.
What dabbling in critical theory can do, ( as you know better than me) is open the eyes to the many possible ways there are to structure a response, and highlight that the kind of criticism that we are used to reading, for instance in the press, really is just one way of approaching a work.

Which doesn’t answer your question, I realise.

Anyway, this might be worth a read over a cuppa.....

( A PhD thesis “ Boulez’s Structuralist Aesthetics of Music”)

https://macsphere.mcmaster.ca/bitstream/11375/10939/1/fulltext.pdf