Vowels and consonants

[ardcarp]

People who know about these things say there is a certain age (is it 5 or 6?) where language acquisition as a 'mother tongue' ends. Below that age it is possible to acquire two, three or even more 'mother tongues' at the same times, so amazing is the infant brain.

[Richard Barrett]

People who know about these things say there is a certain age (is it 5 or 6?) where language acquisition as a 'mother tongue' ends. Below that age it is possible to acquire two, three or even more 'mother tongues' at the same times, so amazing is the infant brain.

I expect that's true, although there's always a dominant language in the environment, even if parents keep to the discipline of only speaking their own language to the child, so that inevitably there's one which is more or less dominant, although this can easily switch over if the family relocates. But it's also often said that bi- or multilingual children tend to start speaking later than others, and I haven't found this to be the case with either of mine. But with one language or two or however many, the language acquisition process is surely one of the most awe-inspiring things to witness. I mean for small children of course - for adults, acquiring more languages is a laborious and awkward business!

[ardcarp]

the language acquisition process is surely one of the most awe-inspiring things to witness. I mean for small children of course

Absolutely amazing. I have 5 g-kids ranging from 19 to 3, and every time I've marvelled at how quickly they acquire not just vocab but Chomsky-type things such as syntax, phrase construction, etc. It's far more rapid than an adult undertaking even the most intensive immersion in a foreign language.

[gurnemanz]

I expect that's true, although there's always a dominant language in the environment, even if parents keep to the discipline of only speaking their own language to the child, so that inevitably there's one which is more or less dominant, although this can easily switch over if the family relocates. But it's also often said that bi- or multilingual children tend to start speaking later than others, and I haven't found this to be the case with either of mine. But with one language or two or however many, the language acquisition process is surely one of the most awe-inspiring things to witness. I mean for small children of course - for adults, acquiring more languages is a laborious and awkward business!

I certainly agree about bringing children up bilingually - my wife is German. A miraculous process and fascinating to observe. I'm a linguist and kept notes and recordings which are still of interest to us .... and the children. They're now mid thirties and still talk German to their mother. Neither have ever lived in Germany.

Re dominant language. Our daughter was the first and of course at the crucial stage she had contact with her mother all day every day and a lot of the time with no one else present, much more than with me (out at work) or other English speakers, so German dominated. When our son came along he had a sister talking English to him (nineteen to the dozen!) and he would speak back to her in English. His bilingual acquisition worked OK but was less effective. To this day his German is less good than his sister's but he still always uses it with my wife. She has been totally consistent all along and never spoken English to them - as indeed I never speak German to them.

[gurnemanz]

People who know about these things say there is a certain age (is it 5 or 6?) where language acquisition as a 'mother tongue' ends. Below that age it is possible to acquire two, three or even more 'mother tongues' at the same times, so amazing is the infant brain.

And it seems that by the same token, language learnt before about five but not kept up after that can be totally forgotten. I had a childhood friend who had lived in Greece at the pre-school stage and told me that he had been able to happily chat away in Greek. Aged about five the family moved back to UK and before long he was unable to speak any Greek at all.

[doversoul1]

Talking about vowels and consonants, if your Japanese friend tells you with a smile that the party s/he went was rubbish, s/he means it was lavish, or when you tell her/him about a family of sheep, you’ll save complications if you talk about male sheep and young sheep, and if s/he asks you about f**ks, don’t be shocked, s/he is only asking you about fax.

[ardcarp]

Q. Why are there so many Chinese people in Harrow?

A. Because when they arrive at Heathrow and hail a taxi they say.....

I'll get me coat.

[doversoul1]

Q. Why are there so many Chinese people in Harrow?

A. Because when they arrive at Heathrow and hail a taxi they say.....

I'll get me coat.

You shouldn’t pork fun at foreigners.

You wouldn’t think a word like roast pork could cause so much hard work.

[ed.] Smiley added just in case.

[Serial_Apologist]

Talking about vowels and consonants, if your Japanese friend tells you with a smile that the party s/he went was rubbish, s/he means it was lavish, or when you tell her/him about a family of sheep, you’ll save complications if you talk about male sheep and young sheep, and if s/he asks you about f**ks, don’t be shocked, s/he is only asking you about fax.

In his last years, my father had a Thai helper at weekends; if she was anything to go by the "brown rice syndrome" goes further than China.

I count myself extremely lucky in that we had a French lady teacher from the age of six who spoke absolutely no English. She was probably in her late 60s; we addressed her as "Madame". Lessons were entirely conducted in French, spoken at a measured pace. This meant we all picked up the French accent to a degree of verisimilitude I kept until working in Zurich in the late 1960, when a French couple thought I actually was French! Sadly I've lost that skill now to some extent through disuse. One day when out walking with my mother we happened to cross paths with her. My mother said "How do you do?" Madame looked appealingly at me for guidance. "Mum", I said, "Madame doesn't speak English or understand it". "Oh", my mother said hesitantly, "Er, boujour Madame, erm, enchantée, is it? enchantée de vous encontre". Afterwards she told me it was the first time she had spoken in French since being at school!

[french frank]

I count myself extremely lucky in that we had a French lady teacher from the age of six who spoke absolutely no English. She was probably in her late 60s; we addressed her as "Madame".

Our French teacher (or 'mistress' as they were called in those days ) at school who was also a French woman. She was universally referred to as M'daaaahhhm

"Oh", my mother said hesitantly, "Er, boujour Madame, erm, enchantée, is it? enchantée de vous encontre".

I'm deeply impressed - she even got the feminine agreement on enchantée!

[Richard Tarleton]

You shouldn’t pork fun at foreigners.

Just one more - some 30 years ago, the then Japanese ambassador was on an official visit not far from my nature reserve on the N Ireland coast, and the NI Office got in touch to say his wife, who was a bit of a birdwatcher, needed to be entertained for an hour or two and could we oblige? I had the telescope trained on a long-eared owl when the motorcade arrived, and the visit proceeded very well from there, but it turned out the species she particularly wanted to see - a life tick for her - was, erm, brack guirremot. Fortunately I knew just where to find some, not too far away, and she went away very happy .

[doversoul1]

Just one more - some 30 years ago, the then Japanese ambassador was on an official visit not far from my nature reserve on the N Ireland coast, and the NI Office got in touch to say his wife, who was a bit of a birdwatcher, needed to be entertained for an hour or two and could we oblige? I had the telescope trained on a long-eared owl when the motorcade arrived, and the visit proceeded very well from there, but it turned out the species she particularly wanted to see - a life tick for her - was, erm, brack guirremot. Fortunately I knew just where to find some, not too far away, and she went away very happy .

Huts off to an excellent guide

[ardcarp]

Nothing to do with the thread...sorry...but it must have been around 1990 that Mrs A and I were on a choir tour in Brittany. Our hosts (always embarrassingly hospitable in France) took us to a a nature reserve on the Riviere de Pont l'Abbe [sorry no accents]. Amongst other things we examined a leech pool. Great. However the young son of one host had his binoculars trained on a small well-treed island. He suddenly shouted "Spatules, spatules!!!" I glanced at Mrs A. who kindly translated 'spoonbills'. We were all a little disbelieving until we had a look for ourselves, and sure enough there were two large-ish white birds in the trees with beaks ending in a spoon shape. At that time it was a rarity to see them in Northern latitudes, but since then they have gradually worked their way up, rather as egrets have done, but in nothing like the numbers.

(Maybe this should be on the Bird Thread.)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I stick out in Devon, being one of the few who says "grasss", rather than "grarss". I sometimes try saying the latter, and feel foolish. I don't want to be a sheep, but neither do I want to be a Steph McGovern.

[ardcarp]

...there's even a subtlety of the 'aa' sound between North Devon, South Devon, Somerset and Dorset. Amongst humans, that is. (I don't have the knowledge of phonetic hieroglyphs to express them.)