The story of post-war West German radio and modern music

[ahinton]

Indeed. Far from "not catching on", the influence of what was done at the Cologne studio especially is still widening and deepening. For example, the early electronic music composers were convinced that the most appropriate way to explore the new sonic domains opened up by even the primitive equipment they had in the electronic studio (basically consisting of recording devices and various kinds of measuring and calibration equipment) was to use their knowledge of serial composition techniques to systematise their researches. When, a little later, purpose-built electronic studio equipment began to be made in the form of modular voltage-control systems, these too were an embodiment of the "parametric" organisation of serial music; and, in the later 1960s, when this technology was industrialised by engineers Robert Moog, Don Buchla and Peter Zinovieff, this kind of architecture remained the most logical way to conceive electronic music technology, and the same remains true to a great extent in the way programming environments like Max and Reaktor work to this day. So it would be true to say that the early electronic music at the WDR "caught on" to a greater extent than almost any other innovation in twentieth-century music. Not only that, but the most important of those early works like Stockhausen's Gesang der Jünglinge are still regularly presented in concerts, broadcasts and releases, and are still held in great reverence by electronic-music composers of all the succeeding generations including the youngest. (Claiming that this music hasn't "caught the imagination of the public in the concert hall" betrays a rather parochial view of what goes on in concert halls!) I find it a shame that the BBC Radiophonic Workshop was so exclusively oriented towards functional music when it could have done so much more to nurture the artistic aspirations of composers like Daphne Oram and Delia Derbyshire.

Indeed. OK, I admit to never having felt drawn towards electronic composition myself, but to suggest that it hasn't really "caught" on is clearly refuted by the fact that it is still with us today; had it not "caught on", it would have died a natural death long ago (other than in the world of commercial pop and the like).

[Richard Barrett]

But much of that repertoire isn't intended for the "concert hall"

A large proportion of it was and is, however, given that it very often involves the kind of sound reproduction systems that people don't have at home. The Institute of Sonology in The Hague usually puts on seven or eight public concerts a year, excluding those for its students' final presentations, and these are at least as well attended as any other concerts of contemporary music in that city. In 2013 we put on four concerts on consecutive days in the course of which the entire electronic oeuvre of Iannis Xenakis was presented, along with a few instrumental pieces scattered here and there through the programmes. I think it would be rather difficult to have attended these and still thought that such music hadn't "caught on".

[Stanfordian]

Indeed. OK, I admit to never having felt drawn towards electronic composition myself, but to suggest that it hasn't really "caught" on is clearly refuted by the fact that it is still with us today; had it not "caught on", it would have died a natural death long ago (other than in the world of commercial pop and the like).

I still believe that is hasn't caught on, not for the mainstream - there will always be factions for various types of music.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I still believe that is hasn't caught on, not for the mainstream - there will always be factions for various types of music.

But "the mainstream" is the audience for Adele and/or Justin Timberlake - Haydn String Quartets haven't "caught on" with that Mainstream, Stanf. If numbers of listeners is how Musical quality is assessed, even Dvorak barely constitutes a trickle - let alone Machaut motets.

[Bryn]

But "the mainstream" is the audience for Adele and/or Justin Timberlake - Haydn String Quartets haven't "caught on" with that Mainstream, Stanf. If numbers of listeners is how Musical quality is assessed, even Dvorak barely constitutes a trickle - let alone Machaut motets.

And as for Stanford . . . Now remind me, when as that full to the rafters Prom devoted to the works of Charles Villiers? I recall those of old Karlheinz in 2008 and 2013, but not that, or those, of CVS.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And as for Stanford . . .

Now, now! (Or rather, perhaps, "then, then"?) But you are quite right, of course: the audience for, say, Polytope Dr Cluny far outnumbers that for the Elegaic Symphony.

[Bryn]

Now, now! (Or rather, perhaps, "then, then"?) But you are quite right, of course: the audience for, say, Polytope Dr Cluny far outnumbers that for the Elegaic Symphony.

Who's this Doctor Cluny? Not come across him or her.

[Stanfordian]

And as for Stanford . . . Now remind me, when as that full to the rafters Prom devoted to the works of Charles Villiers? I recall those of old Karlheinz in 2008 and 2013, but not that, or those, of CVS.

When did I ever say or infer that Stanford's music was popular and mainstream?

I would certainly say that people that admire Stanford's music are part of a faction.

You don't like my views so you belittle music that I appreciate. I couldn't care two hoots whether you like it or not, or if it's played at the Proms!

Incidentally I sometimes play the works of Xenakis (attended concerts too) and know Polytope De Cluny.

I can almost hear the wheels rolling of the private messages of the atonalist coterie with gang-up alerts. All very childlike!

[vinteuil]

Who's this Doctor Cluny? Not come across him or her.

... but mebbe this -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVx0PvK9TnQ

.

[vinteuil]

I would certainly say that people that admire Stanford's music are part of a faction.

... or a part of a fraction.

.

[Bryn]

... or a part of a fraction.

.

Triple distillate, possibly.

[greenilex]

I think we should agree to switch off when we feel the need...

[Stanfordian]

... or a part of a fraction.

.

[Stanfordian]

Triple distillate, possibly.

No, quadruple distilled, maybe.

[Pianorak]

But "the mainstream" is the audience for Adele and/or Justin Timberlake - Haydn String Quartets haven't "caught on" with that Mainstream, Stanf. If numbers of listeners is how Musical quality is assessed, even Dvorak barely constitutes a trickle - let alone Machaut motets.

Would it be too fanciful to suggest that you are comparing Mainstream Apples with Mainstream Oranges?