University Lecturers' Strike

[teamsaint]

Is there not an equally strong commercialism in the older ( and oldest) universities?

They are all signing up as many students as possible, at the highest fees . Hence the drive for non EU students at places like York and Nottingham, for example.

[Dave2002]

All too often my generation mutters that we lived in freezing garrets on five pounds a week, and half a pint in the pub on a Saturday would last all evening.

Sadly ... or not .... I'm old enough to remember that. Also the 3 day week when we went and sat in a pub with candles and drank very little. I was also unemployed for a while, and spent the days reading cosmology books, and getting into rent arrears and overdrafts, and when I started to earn again almost the first thing I did was to go to buy books on astronomy, physics, maths etc., and there were libraries to go to/use as well.

I had a beaten up and very unreliable car. I bought it myself with money I'd earned over summer periods - maybe £30! I was not given a new or even a respectable second hand car by aged Ps, and of course we didn't have mobile phones to help while away the hours.

I feel a dose of the Four Yorkshiremen coming on - though I don't originate from there.

[french frank]

Is there not an equally strong commercialism in the older ( and oldest) universities?

They are all signing up as many students as possible, at the highest fees . Hence the drive for non EU students at places like York and Nottingham, for example.

Yes, but when universities were state funded via grants of various sorts, they didn't have to compete with each other. The tuition fees which now fund the universities have replaced the state grants. The difference is that the graduate shares the cost of their education (albeit not equally) with the government which commodifies their education and makes them 'customers'.

[vinteuil]

Sadly ... or not .... I'm old enough to remember that. Also the 3 day week when we went and sat in a pub with candles and drank very little. / ... /

I feel a dose of the Four Yorkshiremen coming on - though I don't originate from there.

... o memories! The three day week - 1 January until 7 March 1974 sez wiki - I remember that I needed between 5 - 7 candles to write my essays - to cope with page being written (proper italic pen and black ink in them days, kids) - text on which was working - secondary reference works.


.

[Serial_Apologist]

... o memories! The three day week - 1 January until 7 March 1974 sez wiki - I remember that I needed between 5 - 7 candles to write my essays - to cope with page being written (proper italic pen and black ink in them days, kids) - text on which was working - secondary reference works.


.

If you'd gone down to the hardware you could have bought fork handles instead, and joined our peasants' revolt!

[vinteuil]

If you'd gone down to the hardware you could have bought fork handles instead, and joined our peasants' revolt!

... but fork handles wasn't enuff! And as for revolting peasants - lordy, I grew up in Wiltshire and knew all about them - me, what I wanted was to be one of the clercs who could set about fomenting a trahison...

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[Serial_Apologist]

... but fork handles wasn't enuff! And as for revolting peasants - lordy, I grew up in Wiltshire and knew all about them - me, what I wanted was to be one of the clercs who could set about fomenting a trahison...

.

:o

[ardcarp]

Sadly ... or not .... I'm old enough to remember that. Also the 3 day week when we went and sat in a pub with candles and drank very little. I was also unemployed for a while, and spent the days reading cosmology books, and getting into rent arrears and overdrafts, and when I started to earn again almost the first thing I did was to go to buy books on astronomy, physics, maths etc., and there were libraries to go to/use as well.

I had a beaten up and very unreliable car. I bought it myself with money I'd earned over summer periods - maybe £30! I was not given a new or even a respectable second hand car by aged Ps, and of course we didn't have mobile phones to help while away the hours.

It is quite difficult to explain to the current generation the extent of our non-connectedness! We had to find a phone box and feed pennies into it to contact someone...and they couldn't contact us at all. Pure bliss. I have to say I was lucky to have an organist's job all through my undergrad days; and believe me, 2 guineas for a wedding on a Saturday was a lifeline. The weddings were not, unfortunately, spaced out through the year. As I recall, there was a tax dodge whereby if you got married either just before or just after the Tax Year start date (can't remember which...can anyone?) it was a big advantage. So I'd get as many as five weddings on some Saturdays in the spring (whoopee) but only a dribble for the rest of the year. But there were always funerals......

[teamsaint]

It is quite difficult to explain to the current generation the extent of our non-connectedness! We had to find a phone box and feed pennies into it to contact someone...and they couldn't contact us at all. Pure bliss. I have to say I was lucky to have an organist's job all through my undergrad days; and believe me, 2 guineas for a wedding on a Saturday was a lifeline. The weddings were not, unfortunately, spaced out through the year. As I recall, there was a tax dodge whereby if you got married either just before or just after the Tax Year start date (can't remember which...can anyone?) it was a big advantage. So I'd get as many as five weddings on some Saturdays in the spring (whoopee) but only a dribble for the rest of the year. But there were always funerals......

If you got married on or before April 5th, you got the whole Married Man's Allowance for the complete year.

( For the difference between whole and complete, google " Fennel".......)

[french frank]

( For the difference between whole and complete, google " Fennel".......)

Don't think that has passed without notice, Mr Saint. I think Mr Oven would want you to say 'whole year'.

As I remember, we didn't have photocopiers either.

[teamsaint]

Don't think that has passed without notice, Mr Saint. I think Mr Oven would want you to say 'whole year'.

As I remember, we didn't have photocopiers either.

Anybody still got a working Banda machine ?!

[ardcarp]

Oh the tribulations of the Roneo and the Gestetner too. Was the Banda that thing that smelt of meths and produced a foggy blue copy?

[Belgrove]

Yes, but when universities were state funded via grants of various sorts, they didn't have to compete with each other. The tuition fees which now fund the universities have replaced the state grants. The difference is that the graduate shares the cost of their education (albeit not equally) with the government which commodifies their education and makes them 'customers'.

A university's governance is its own business and whilst a government can influence them, they cannot dictate what model to adopt for the relationship between the institution, and by implication between its lecturers and its students. Universities could have recognised that the relationship is a professional one, for which a professional/client, doctor/patient dynamic is a better approximation than purveyor/customer. There is plenty of expertise amongst university professionals whom managers could have consulted for establishing the relationship on a rational basis, or have learned from the models used abroad. University managements elected, en mass (they operate essentially a cartel), not to go down that route and consulted (if anyone) economists, who bluntly monetised the product that students buy. No market was established, all charged the same maximum cap the government imposed. Not unreasonably that gives students a sense of entitlement to purchasing a 'good' degree, but dilutes the lifelong skill that obtains from a good university education, learning how to learn for oneself over a lifetime.

[Bryn]

Was the Banda that thing that smelt of meths and produced a foggy blue copy?

No, that was the RE teacher.

[ardcarp]