Gallery removes naked nymphs painting to 'prompt conversation'

[jean]

But apart from being naked, she doesn't really look vulnerable, does she?

[french frank]

But apart from being naked, she doesn't really look vulnerable, does she?

Depends what you think Juncker's and Barnier's methods and intentions are (and aren't)

[greenilex]

It is instructive just to swap round the genders in these artworks to see what reactions/expressions of distaste might follow. Fully clad women admiring naked men is pretty rare in western art, I would say.

The Water Babies does have Tom and the fully-clad and rather muscular Mrs Doasyouwouldbedoneby and Mrs Bedonebyasyoudid.

[french frank]

It is instructive just to swap round the genders in these artworks to see what reactions/expressions of distaste might follow. Fully clad women admiring naked men is pretty rare in western art, I would say.

Of course, there may be no cries of 'distaste' or any other objections whatsoever. We would know for sure if such artworks had been or were now being produced with just as much regularity …

[Serial_Apologist]

Fully clad women admiring naked men is pretty rare in western art, I would say.

Pretty much non-existent anywhere, not just in art, I would once have said. We used to be told that the naked male statues in Greek antiquity were for admiration of and by gay men, though easily accessed footage of hen parties in full swing - yes I have accessed it! - suggests that either they're just there for a laugh or I must have lived a sheltered life.

[vinteuil]

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http://amzn.eu/8zXzF0O

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[french frank]

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http://amzn.eu/8zXzF0O

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New from £63.29
Used from £3.40

Uptake a bit slow?

[oddoneout]

Fully clad women admiring naked men is pretty rare in western art, I would say..

Might have something to do with (to generalise, but not that much) all male artists catering to all male clients/audience?

I have a suspicion that women are happy to use their imaginations on images of men(and in real life) and perhaps don't find the full monty as appealing as the female equivalent is to men? I seem to recall reading somewhere that Queen Victoria had definite ideas about the style of trouser Albert should wear in order to make the best of his figure. I also remember that a few years ago when the choir did a concert that involved gentlemen from the Hussars branch of the armed forces that there was a fair amount of distraction when they turned up in full ceremonial dress for the performance - the jackets and trousers are designed to set ladies hearts a-flutter....

[Serial_Apologist]

Might have something to do with (to generalise, but not that much) all male artists catering to all male clients/audience?

I have a suspicion that women are happy to use their imaginations on images of men(and in real life) and perhaps don't find the full monty as appealing as the female equivalent is to men? I seem to recall reading somewhere that Queen Victoria had definite ideas about the style of trouser Albert should wear in order to make the best of his figure. I also remember that a few years ago when the choir did a concert that involved gentlemen from the Hussars branch of the armed forces that there was a fair amount of distraction when they turned up in full ceremonial dress for the performance - the jackets and trousers are designed to set ladies hearts a-flutter....

Yes, that equation of image and power. Depressing, isn't it; doesn't do much for feminism.

[Barbirollians]

Might have something to do with (to generalise, but not that much) all male artists catering to all male clients/audience?

I have a suspicion that women are happy to use their imaginations on images of men(and in real life) and perhaps don't find the full monty as appealing as the female equivalent is to men? I seem to recall reading somewhere that Queen Victoria had definite ideas about the style of trouser Albert should wear in order to make the best of his figure. I also remember that a few years ago when the choir did a concert that involved gentlemen from the Hussars branch of the armed forces that there was a fair amount of distraction when they turned up in full ceremonial dress for the performance - the jackets and trousers are designed to set ladies hearts a-flutter....

The success of male strippers in recent years - for example I read yesterday that some outfit called the Dreamboys will be in Sheffield City Hall the evening before the next Philharmonic concert would suggest that your views about women and the full monty are rather out of date !

[teamsaint]

The success of male strippers in recent years - for example I read yesterday that some outfit called the Dreamboys will be in Sheffield City Hall the evening before the next Philharmonic concert would suggest that your views about women and the full monty are rather out of date !

Maybe it isn't all women attending ?

[Richard Tarleton]

It is instructive just to swap round the genders in these artworks to see what reactions/expressions of distaste might follow. Fully clad women admiring naked men is pretty rare in western art, I would say.

Doen't this simply reflect the tendency of artists in the pre-Romantic eras (and then, latterly, the Pre-Raphaelites) to take inspiration from stories from Greek mythology - in which there's a tendency for men to spy on women (or nymphs, or goddesses )? Can't think of an example of the reverse. It didn't always end well for men...Titian's Death of Actaeon...... In a recent University Challenge picture question, students had to identify three paintings or their artists in which Zeus in animal form was forcing himself on young women while in animal form (Leda and the Swan, Europa, can't remember the third one). As these paintings depict rape they should clearly be taken down, wherever they are.....and don't let's get started on the Death of Sardanapalus, Lucretia, the Sabines....the debate should clearly widen, lots of gaps on walls....

[greenilex]

Maybe the Shower of Gold? Danae?

[french frank]

The success of male strippers in recent years - for example I read yesterday that some outfit called the Dreamboys will be in Sheffield City Hall the evening before the next Philharmonic concert would suggest that your views about women and the full monty are rather out of date !

That's a very good point. Times change and this is surely an example of women's 'equality' : though whether such events play the same role as an all-men's do of the Presidents Club might be doubted. I can't say I'm very interested in this particular manifestation of 'women's equality' (I'd prefer a good book)! But I don't know whether I'm typical …

[kernelbogey]

[....] In a recent University Challenge picture question, students had to identify three paintings or their artists in which Zeus in animal form was forcing himself on young women while in animal form (Leda and the Swan, Europa, can't remember the third one). As these paintings depict rape they should clearly be taken down, wherever they are.....and don't let's get started on the Death of Sardanapalus, Lucretia, the Sabines....the debate should clearly widen, lots of gaps on walls....

I take it that the <big grin> indicates irony, Richard? Perhaps mythological paintings of rape might help society address this difficult subject more directly. To say nothing of violent gods.... I have just read a review* in the LRB which quotes a sergeant in the US army in Vietnam: '...one of the most brutal things in the world is your average 19-year-old American boy'. Rape continues to be a weapon of war everywhere. How should we address this crime?

Edit: *Max Hastings reviewing My Lai: Vietnam, 1968 and the Descent into Darkness by Howard Jones, LRB 25 January 2018