Degrees

[ardcarp]

I heard on the news today (or somewhere) that one-quarter of university degrees are now awarded with first class honours. What???
Any views?

[Lat-Literal]

I heard on the news today (or somewhere) that one-quarter of university degrees are now awarded with first class honours. What???
Any views?

People in each generation have no option on reaching a certain age but to decide on the extent to which they can emotionally accommodate social change. I am sure that there were many before the 1960s who considered rightly or wrongly that new small increases in the numbers going to university were somewhat unreal. Given this, while there was a time when this sort of news would have irritated me - I would have felt that it devalued my achievements and affected my chances of seeking alternative employment - it now says nothing to me about me or my life. Regardless of all my best efforts, I feel separate from what is taking place generally. If I had to try to describe that in two words, those words would be "toy town".

I don't really like that feeling and would never have anticipated that it would develop in this way but being a feeling I know there is absolutely nothing I can do about it. All I can do is acknowledge the context in which I went to university, see it for what it meant to me and other people at that time, and view any new framework as essentially being "another world".

There was only one 1st in History in my year - his surname was something like Armadillo - no one knew him but many guessed he was the guy who walked around with an alarm clock. I don't know if there were any 1sts in Politics although the woman who never wore shoes and rocked back and forth in seminars while holding a big teddy bear was exceedingly bright.

[french frank]

I heard on the news today (or somewhere) that one-quarter of university degrees are now awarded with first class honours. What???
Any views?

In my year, 42 took Honours French; there were 2 Firsts awarded, just less than 5% - and we were considered a bright year. What could have changed?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

In my year, 42 took Honours French; there were 2 Firsts awarded, just less than 5% - and we were considered a bright year. What could have changed?

It was much the same in our year.

[Historian]

One news report suggested that students might be working harder nowadays... I think a lot of them are, but in paid work earning money to help them through university rather than in the library.

I don't know how final exams are marked now, but if the system has changed from a 'bell-curve' distribution to one in which anyone who satisfies the marking criteria will be awarded a First, then that would explain it (at least in part). Otherwise, perhaps that subtle 'grade inflation' which is the usual result of teaching staff being judged on results.

[teamsaint]

From my experience of my children going through A level and University in the not too distant past, I would definitely say that in the subjects that they took, they were taught much better how to construct essay answers than we were 30 + years ago.
I doubt this explains apparent grade inflation completely, but it would be one factor. Of course there are some departments that still award very few firsts, for whatever reason.

[teamsaint]

It was much the same in our year.

Mine too we definitely considered ourseleves a bright year.

I wonder if students are cannier at picking the right modules for better grades nowadays? Either those modules with a reputation for generous marks, or which just suit them better?

[Bryn]

I wonder if the rise in the proportion of 1st Class degrees has anything to do with the debts uncured, and a consequent greater diligence in studying in order to get one's moneys-worth? Certainly there have ever been highly diligent students but, just perhaps, more are keeping their noses to the grindstone these days.

[french frank]

I wonder if students are cannier at picking the right modules for better grades nowadays? Either those modules with a reputation for generous marks

I think the whole question of thinking ahead as to what grade one might get is more in people's minds now. I don't remember anyone deliberately aiming or expecting to get a first.

in paid work earning money to help them through university rather than in the library.

That and the broader range going to university now would predict lower grades rather than higher. When I was examining, we had a general idea of what we expected for a first class answer, what for a good (68), average (65) or just about (62) second … &c. When these had been combined to a final numerical mark, there was discussion about general performance in written work throughout the final year. Assessment as to whether a 59 in the exam was worth pushing up to a second for any reason. Performance across the board in different papers. Lots of things.

Otherwise, perhaps that subtle 'grade inflation' which is the usual result of teaching staff being judged on results.

Competition between universities seems to be a factor, as well as subject taken: 'what will give me the best chance of getting a first?'

[Lat-Literal]

Our institution was sixth in the national table when I was there even if departmental positions would have varied nationally. Although that was a high position, I distinctly recall being told that only Oxbridge tended to award quite a lot of firsts. The implication, as I see it now, was that we were not in competition with other universities. We accepted our place as one of the many and not the elite few. If you had actually got into Oxbridge, it was more justifiable to be considered as a candidate for a first. These days, with competition in the market place, it's part of the Russell Group. That is supposed to be an indication of Premier League rather than second tier status. Potential "buyers" would look at the amount of firsts it is offering. If that was lower than the University of Grimthorpe they would wonder if it was really a Russell Group university other than in name. Some would go to Grimthorpe instead.

(and I do mean Grimthorpe rather than Grimethorpe which has a splendid brass band)

[gurnemanz]

Just checked ... Durham 1971 BA Hons German:
one First, six 2:1, eleven 2:2 (of whom I was one and not ashamed of it), one Third. I noticed that in Modern History no Firsts were awarded.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wonder if the rise in the proportion of 1st Class degrees has anything to do with the debts uncured, and a consequent greater diligence in studying in order to get one's moneys-worth? Certainly there have ever been highly diligent students but, just perhaps, more are keeping their noses to the grindstone these days.

Frau A would not agree. She did some lecturing at a university I shall not name. She said that the fact that students now had to pay massively often brought out the worst in them: "You've just wasted an hour of my time and I'm paying for it."

[Lat-Literal]

Frau A would not agree. She did some lecturing at a university I shall not name. She said that the fact that students now had to pay massively often brought out the worst in them: "You've just wasted an hour of my time and I'm paying for it."

To which the obvious reply is:

"You are going to live to 105 and be in paid employment to 100 - I don't see a problem."

[LMcD]

Southampton in the late 1960s: to my recollection, the great majority of candidates were awarded a 2.1 or a 'Desmond'. There were very few Firsts.

[Historian]

ff I was being unclear. My implication was that students working to earn money were less likely to achieve a First. Will try to be clearer next time.

Interesting to hear something of the finals process from the point of view of the examiners. Perhaps that system has changed now.