NHS 'crisis'

[richardfinegold]

But let us not forget the behaviour of a lot of the British public. Thoughts immediately go to those who purposefully get themselves blind drunk on Friday and Saturday nights and expect the dedicated NHS teams -
A&E staff, paramedics etc not to mention the police and other emergency services - to deal with their irresponsible behaviour. And what about the 'no shows' for appointments - one local GP surgery now posts a list every month and it is as long as your arm - all a waste of taxpayer's money and doctors/staff time. For myself I had an an appointment in connection with some surgery which I need; the appointment was with a leading General Surgery consultant and I got there, as is my wont, half an hour early only to be ushered straight in as the two previous patients had not turned up and the surgeon was waiting and getting very bored - a top level consultant who could have been busy saving/improving lives. And as a relative who works in the NHS pointed out, doubtless these 'no shows' would then be demanding replacement appointments at times to suit themselves. It is not a question of letting politicians off the hook but those who hurl abuse at them on Facebook should really think a bit more and shout a bit less.

you've just described my daily reality

[eighthobstruction]

....>> It is not a question of letting politicians off the hook but those who hurl abuse at them on Facebook should really think a bit more and shout a bit less. <<

....well there's a funny old sentence, if ever there was....I suggest a tiny tiny percentage of users are taking to Fb in this way ....

[kernelbogey]

My experience of the NHS is of excellence in clinical management and treatment. I acknowledge that my situation (in Hampshire) may be exceptional.

My GP surgery has emergency appointments reserved every day. I may have to wait 7 - 14 days for a routine appointment which I consider acceptable: As a patient I have to 'manage' this system myself.

This surgery manages DNAs (no shows) by automated text reminder: I will receive up to three text reminders between the day I make the appointment and the day before.

My last experience of a hospital outpatient appointment (in Southampton) was flawless. After a failed impacted wisdom tooth extraction under local anaesthetic, the consultant personally phoned me to offer an unexpected space in her list for the next day. My pre-op, operation under general anaesthetic, and post-op care were of the highest standard.

While I treasure the NHS and believe that this government is underfunding the service in order to undermine it in order to privatise it, I also believe that selective (albeit accurate) reporting of 'chaos' etc is distorting the overall picture.

[MrGongGong]

But let us not forget the behaviour of a lot of the British public. Thoughts immediately go

Whilst this is undoubtedly true
do you ever wonder WHY your thoughts have been directed in this manner?

IMV (and for various reasons i'm probably very biased in this !) this is precisely what those in power want you to do. Whenever someone with an illness or disability is mentioned they want people to think about the folks who are "fiddling the system", people off work with back injury being caught skydiving and all the rest.. the net result doesn't improve the NHS (which in my experience has been, and continues to be, fantastic) or the lives of people in need of support but merely encourages a climate of mistrust and suspicion.

[Once Was 4]

Whilst this is undoubtedly true
do you ever wonder WHY your thoughts have been directed in this manner?

IMV (and for various reasons i'm probably very biased in this !) this is precisely what those in power want you to do. Whenever someone with an illness or disability is mentioned they want people to think about the folks who are "fiddling the system", people off work with back injury being caught skydiving and all the rest.. the net result doesn't improve the NHS (which in my experience has been, and continues to be, fantastic) or the lives of people in need of support but merely encourages a climate of mistrust and suspicion.

Point taken but, in my old MU roles and now in a volunteer role that I now have at a senior level , there are plenty of people who will criticise - sometimes with a high level of personal abuse - but few of these will accept any kind of responsibility themselves. I am good at funny old phrases by the way - as a funny and (getting) old bloke!

[Serial_Apologist]

Whilst this is undoubtedly true
do you ever wonder WHY your thoughts have been directed in this manner?

IMV (and for various reasons i'm probably very biased in this !) this is precisely what those in power want you to do. Whenever someone with an illness or disability is mentioned they want people to think about the folks who are "fiddling the system", people off work with back injury being caught skydiving and all the rest.. the net result doesn't improve the NHS (which in my experience has been, and continues to be, fantastic) or the lives of people in need of support but merely encourages a climate of mistrust and suspicion.

Scapegoating in general has long been the ruling class's preferred means of diverting attention away from the real causes of social problems: the system they run and benefit by. Tony Benn used to get clapped every time on Any Questions he pointed out the main culprits, the press; yet everytime Dimbletoes then asked for a show of hands from the audience indicating how many people still read them nonetheless, a majority signalled their tacit support of such ideological mind-twisting. People go along with majority opinion for fear of being ostracised or neglected totally, because the whole system, including its ideology, brainwashes them into thinking it's the only one available, or the least worst option, in Churchill's words.

[ardcarp]

My experience of the NHS is of excellence in clinical management and treatment. I acknowledge that my situation (in Hampshire) may be exceptional.

My GP surgery has emergency appointments reserved every day. I may have to wait 7 - 14 days for a routine appointment which I consider acceptable: As a patient I have to 'manage' this system myself.

This surgery manages DNAs (no shows) by automated text reminder: I will receive up to three text reminders between the day I make the appointment and the day before.

My last experience of a hospital outpatient appointment (in Southampton) was flawless. After a failed impacted wisdom tooth extraction under local anaesthetic, the consultant personally phoned me to offer an unexpected space in her list for the next day. My pre-op, operation under general anaesthetic, and post-op care were of the highest standard.

While I treasure the NHS and believe that this government is underfunding the service in order to undermine it in order to privatise it, I also believe that selective (albeit accurate) reporting of 'chaos' etc is distorting the overall picture.

I think most people will have experience (at either first or second hand) of the NHS at its best. I've had two friends with a serious form of cancer who have had wonderful treatment and service. My OP was mainly to make the point that the huge A&E departments are having to cope with relatively minor cases which should have been dealt with by GPs. I agree also (as mentioned upthread) that local minor injuries hospitals are being shut right, left and centre.

I agree also with your suspicion, kb, that the Tories are probably using underfunding as a prelude to privatisation.

[gradus]

My lifetime experience of the NHS is mixed, some good some bad. It is certainly not beyond criticism but I don't know of a better approach. Private medical insurance is prohibitively expensive for people over retirement age and in many areas relies on back-up in expertise from NHS hospitals.
I wouldn't mind paying a dedicated NHS tax if it resulted in improved treatment across a range of clearly specified criteria. Any offers?

[Barbirollians]

Our GPs are exceptionally well rewarded financially.

https://medicfootprints.org/10-highest-paid-countries-world-doctors/

Second only to the US according to this site. They do have the option of working fewer hours, and still earning a very good salary.

For a lot of GPs they do not have that option as they can no longer recruit enough people to become GPs . One friend of mine has , however done so , he estimates he is pad 60% of what he was paid full time but his workload is 80% of what it was .

[teamsaint]

For a lot of GPs they do not have that option as they can no longer recruit enough people to become GPs . One friend of mine has , however done so , he estimates he is pad 60% of what he was paid full time but his workload is 80% of what it was .

Well that's funny because here in Salisbury we have loads of part time GPs. 16 out of the 23 in this practice, in fact.

http://3chequers.co.uk/earnings.aspx

And the BMA has, as far as I am aware, been complicit in restricting training places for a long time. Understandably, perhaps.

http://www.bmj.com/content/337/bmj.a748

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Just out of interest ... how can a thread have 0 views and 1 reply?

I've often wondered about that.

[Lat-Literal]

I wonder if part of the current pressure on hospitals is caused by the primary sector (i.e. GP practices) copping out of much of the work they would have undertaken in former years?

An example from yesterday. Mrs A and I were walking through a small Wiltshire town. There was sort of 'crump' from behind us, and an elederly lady had just fallen over on the pavement. We picked her up and took her into a nearby tea-room as somewhere for her to sit down. She was clearly very shaken...and it soon emerged that she had a nasty bump on her head. The tea-room staff (who were very kind and helpful) said that we ought perhaps to take her to the local GP surgery which was just around the corner. This we did. Two indifferent receptionists, neither of whom made eye contact, were sitting behind a desk. I explained the situation. "All falls and bumps on the head go to A&E in Bath", one of them muttered. I explained that as Bath was 25 miles away and that we were not related to the casualty, we really would be most grateful if someone could take a look at her injuries. "Oh I suppose one of the nurses could see her", she sighed. "Take a seat". This we did. It transpired that the lady in question was (a) one of their patients (b) had lost her husband a few days ago and (c) had left her car with an hour's ticket in the paying car-park...a fact which was clearly preying on her mind.

The nurse arrived in due course. She ordered an ambulance. I drove the lady's car to her home about a mile away. None of the GPs had seen her.

OK, I know they are probably bogged down with computers, ticking boxes and so on. But where is the simple humanity that a medical practitioner (even in pre-NHS days) used to have?

I have heard from others that many GPs nowadays, as a matter of course, send everyone off to A&E for the slightest thing that involves more than writing a prescription. Surely these highly-trained people should be doing more at the primary care end of the system?

What you did for her was very good and your account of what happened is shocking. Much of it says more about the attitudes of some in society than about resources per se. From personal experience, I recommend changing surgery to anyone who encounters dire service. It can make the difference between visiting somewhere reasonably normal and a torture chamber. Mine was actually open on Boxing Day this year. The midway point between GPs' practices and A and E? The minor injuries units which are often open even when a surgery is closed. These can provide the sort of support you were seeking for this unfortunate woman. There are also several routes for providing formal feedback including on the receptionists.

Having been that 'elderly lady' about six weeks ago (I fall over quite often these days), I had to get up (which I did very hastily) and walk painfully back home. I did toy with visiting my surgery - 2 minutes walk away - but knew I wouldn't be able to see even a nurse except by appointment, for which I'd wait at least a fortnight. I would then be sent to a local hospital to have my ribs X-rayed to check for damage. On reflection, if I'd remained sitting or lying on the pavement until someone stopped, they would have rung for an ambulance which would have arrived - when? And I would have sat in A&E for - how long? After which I'd have been sent home.

On balance it was best just to get up and walk home straight away and wait for everything to get better.

So sorry to hear this - do get well soon.

[kernelbogey]

I've often wondered about that.

FF once explained this for me: something to do with a delay in the system in recording views.....

Andrew...? FF...?

[kernelbogey]

Well that's funny because here in Salisbury we have loads of part time GPs. 16 out of the 23 in this practice, in fact.[...]

And the BMA has, as far as I am aware, been complicit in restricting training places for a long time. Understandably, perhaps. [...]

TS - I wonder if that's because many of the part-timers are 'returnee' women doctors with families? I think that sector has been strongly encouraged in recent years because of the shortage of doctors in primary care.

I have no issue with what doctors earn. They potentially have my life in their hands; that is, in their capacity for sound judgement.

[teamsaint]

TS - I wonder if that's because many of the part-timers are 'returnee' women doctors with families? I think that sector has been strongly encouraged in recent years because of the shortage of doctors in primary care.

I have no issue with what doctors earn. They potentially have my life in their hands; that is, in their capacity for sound judgement.

Lots of Doctors working part time. And who can blame them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/gp-shortage-fuelled-rising-numbers-working-part-time/

Like you, I don't have any substantial issue with what (good) doctors earn, but there isn't a shortage of applicants for medicine, and by international standards ours are well paid , so the rewards are not , in general, the source of any supply issues.

I'm sure there are issues around junior doctors pay and conditions that need addressing , though.