Is home "taping" still permissible in the UK? Elsewhere?

[Richard Barrett]

it seemed to me that as they were perfectly happy to pay Michael Jackson they should at least do something to encourage local musicians...

Yes, there used to be a slogan put out by the BPI that went "Home Taping is Killing Music", which I believe may be translated into English as "Home Taping is Slightly Reducing Music Industry Profits so We'll Take That Cash Out of What We Might Otherwise Pay to Artists."

[cloughie]

Things have moved on. One can do much more with modern solid state devices such a the Zoom, Tascam, Sony and several other solid state pocket recorders. Paired with a personal computer one can store the results on hard disc, memory card etc., or burn to CD-R, recordable DVD or Blu-ray.

I know all that Bryn, and we have aired this on these boards before - I have a Zoom and do use with a PC but MDs are the simplest one press of a button and got it, edited if required, without any need for a computer if you don't want the fiddle!

[MrGongGong]

Yes, there used to be a slogan put out by the BPI that went "Home Taping is Killing Music", which I believe may be translated into English as "Home Taping is Slightly Reducing Music Industry Profits so We'll Take That Cash Out of What We Might Otherwise Pay to Artists."

indeed

[Stanley Stewart]

[QUOTE=seabright;645093]I assume you know it's been on You Tube for the last 6 years and has had nearly 280,000 well-deserved "views" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT-86OtwzDI

What a wonderful world-wide classical archive You Tube has turned out to be! ... For example, only the other day I was watching a Spanish TV transmission of "The Planets" and a super performance it is, since it can hardly be a familiar work for either orchestra or audience ...

Simply a matter of preference. More comfortable to sit in an armchair and watch a programme on a 32" TV; a DVD also provides better picture and sound - more
visitor-friendly, too.

[pastoralguy]

I know there's a lot of computer jiggery pockery out there but, as an NHS employee, I spend WAY too much time fiddling with an unstable computer system that seems to change on a weekly basis. (I remember the days when sending a simple urine sample took 5 minutes involving a simple form and pen. Now, it takes at least 10 minutes involving a system that has changed since the last time one sent a similar sample). Such a waste of time.

So I'm reluctant to allow such an unstable computer system to dictate my music achive/listening habits. Imho, computers are such a soulless medium for appreciating music. (And, yes, I know computers are involved in the production of music but, fortunately, I don't have to be a slave to their fickle ways).

[Dave2002]

As far as I know it has always been accepted that off-air recordings are allowed, as long as they're for personal use only (and therefore not shared, presumably).

I understand that is still the case, but what about recording from the iPlayer - which is a form of listen on demand, but not "off-air?

I believe that technically there may even be differences (bonkers though they may be) in the "legality" of recordings made using different forms of equpment - digital vs analogue, for example.

To deny some "on demand" recordings would deny someone who misses a concert, or a play, or a radio documentary, and then in discussion a day or two later it emerges that it would have been a "good thing" to have had a recording to have an opportunity to remedy that by recording from the on-line stream.

Also, some broadcasts are sufficiently rare or unusual that it makes sense to "grab" them while the chance is there. Some things are like buses - there'll be another in a few minutes - e.g. broadcasts of Beethoven symphonies, or Tchaikovsky 4,5 or 6 - but other items may hardly ever come round again.

[Stunsworth]

For what it’s worth I download anything I want keep from the iPlayer. The main problem is that there’s more stuff to download than I have time to listen to. Tristam Shandy had a similar problem writing his autobiography. The result is that I don’t download as much as I ought to.

[Dave2002]

For what it’s worth I download anything I want keep from the iPlayer. The main problem is that there’s more stuff to download than I have time to listen to. Tristam Shandy had a similar problem writing his autobiography. The result is that I don’t download as much as I ought to.

If I anticipate I want a programme in advance I can set my TV PVR to record it. OK - the quality level might be a bit lower than via the R3 streams, but for many programmes it doesn't really matter - e.g R4 speech programmes, or music I might want to listen to in the car - where the environment is noisy enough to cancel out most of the benefits of higher quality audio. I often do Record Review that way, though there can be clashes with TV programmes filling up the storage.

Obtaining a more permanent version of something I missed via the on-air broadcasts is somewhat trickier. The 30 or so days for listening to iPlayer or other on-demand services is OK if I have the time to listen, and if I don't want or "need" a more long lasting copy.

[cloughie]

For what it’s worth I download anything I want keep from the iPlayer. The main problem is that there’s more stuff to download than I have time to listen to. Tristam Shandy had a similar problem writing his autobiography. The result is that I don’t download as much as I ought to.

Do you download to keep more than the 30 days and if so how? ...and how editable is your modus operandum?

[Stunsworth]

Do you download to keep more than the 30 days and if so how? ...and how editable is your modus operandum?

Yes they can be kept for more than 30 days, and yes they can be edited. More details may break the posting policy here.

[french frank]

Yes they can be kept for more than 30 days, and yes they can be edited. More details may break the posting policy here.

I don't know what the 'posting policy' is now but it has always been the case that direct downloading from the iPlayer is not 'legal', from the BBC's point of view and as relating to the rights which they have negotiated. Why it should be legal to record off-air, in real time, and end up with a permanent recording of a programme but not all right to download and end up with a permanent recording of the same programme takes one into the area of strict legality as against sensible practicality.

[Bryn]

One strange anomaly concerns the Beeb's recent insistence of logging in to stream from the iPlayer, whether it be a radio or television programme. There is freely available software which facilitates getting iPlayer files onto a storage device via a computer. Downloading using that software does not require logging on to the iPlayer.

[MrGongGong]

I don't know what the 'posting policy' is now but it has always been the case that direct downloading from the iPlayer is not 'legal', from the BBC's point of view and as relating to the rights which they have negotiated. Why it should be legal to record off-air, in real time, and end up with a permanent recording of a programme but not all right to download and end up with a permanent recording of the same programme takes one into the area of strict legality as against sensible practicality.

A few years ago I was running a workshop for music teachers at the BBC at the Media Centre in White City. Most of this was concerned with showing them free software tools to use in the classroom for composition, performance and teaching. One of the teachers commented that whilst they found loads of interesting things on a "listen again" part of the BBC website (this was a while before the current iPlayer) there was no way of saving them and as the internet didn't work very well in school wanted to know a simple way of "saving" these broadcasts. "Simple" I said and proceeded to show the group how to get your computer to record every sound it makes and how to go about using this technique to "rip" anything you found on the internet.... all went well until the door opened to a group of chaps in suits on a tour of the building ... "and what is happening in here" was the questions... "erm..... composition things" being the almost truthful reply. In my defence had I said "O, I'm just showing these teachers how to overcome all your copyright restrictions using open source software" I guess that would be the end of the gig?

I do think people are more pragmatic these days, educational use and all that.....

[pastoralguy]

I remember the days when the school janitor would have a radio with a microphone dangling in front of it attached to an open reel tape machine with a sign saying 'PLEASE KEEP QUIET - RECORDING IN PROGRESS'. Changed days!

[french frank]

I remember the days when the school janitor would have a radio with a microphone dangling in front of it attached to an open reel tape machine with a sign saying 'PLEASE KEEP QUIET - RECORDING IN PROGRESS'. Changed days!

Yes, we did that with our Grundig tape recorder. We had a grandfather clock which could be heard chiming in the middle of most of our recordings.