Is home "taping" still permissible in the UK? Elsewhere?

[Dave2002]

In the distant past when reel to reel recorders were a rare thing to have in domestic environments it was legal to record radio programmes for "domestic" use. Over the years improvements in technology have now made this easier - in some ways - and the number of people able and wishing to make recordings has certainly increased - though whether many people really wish to keep recordings for long periods is perhaps doubtful.

There were certainly decades when (allegedly - young) people were recording or sharing "hit" songs, in order to keep their own costs down. Others were buying tapes or CDs, and then copying them - which for private use might be considered acceptable, but for giving away to friends etc., decisions were made in various countries that this was unreasonable.

Now with streaming, there is perhaps little incentive for such "users" to do this any more.

Regarding broadcasters though (in the UK - and/or elsewhere) - do the rules which were established many years ago still apply, or is it now not legitimate to make and keep any recording from broadcast sources? On the other hand, is it like observing speed limits? Many people drive (sometimes considerably) over speed limits, and don't care and never get prosecuted. Perhaps there are areas of activity where "as long as things don't get out of hand" nobody is going to do anything about them!

[french frank]

Regarding broadcasters though (in the UK - and/or elsewhere) - do the rules which were established many years ago still apply, or is it now not legitimate to make and keep any recording from broadcast sources?

As far as I know it has always been accepted that off-air recordings are allowed, as long as they're for personal use only (and therefore not shared, presumably).

[Stanley Stewart]

As far as I know it has always been accepted that off-air recordings are allowed, as long as they're for personal use only (and therefore not shared, presumably).

My understanding, too! I've had enormous pleasure in home-taping and only last night played an off-air recording of Tosca, Act 2, with Callas & Gobbi at Covent Garden, 1964, originally rec on off-air video and subsequently transferred to HD and DVD in the digital era with improved picture and sound.

A few months ago, I did a more ambitious transfer to DVD from off-air recordings of ROH
production, Keith Warner, of the Ring Cycle/Pappano, made over a couple of years in the mid-noughties, as I've waited more than a decade for a commercial release of this fine
production. It also has a splendid 60mins intro by Snr Pappano. A prized collector's item!

Now compiling a Stravinsky portfolio on DVD from earlier off-air recordings: Riot at
The Rite, 2006, + a 2006 documentary, Stravinsky, Composer - in his own words;
a performance from Proms 2003, The Rite of Spring, BPO/Rattle, a 2002 documentary,
Masterworks/ Michael Berkeley, with a full performance of The Rite, Richard Alston
Dance Co and BBC SO/Leonard Slatkin. Finally, a Stravinsky triple, Firebird, Petrushka
and Rite of Spring, LSO/Rattle at the Barbican, 21 Sept '17. A quality evening on R3,
ALL worth shelf-space for repeated viewing.

[pastoralguy]

I have shoe boxes full of mini-discs from 'off air' content including some fascinating documentaries. A favourite is a minute by minute account of The sinking of the Titanic that was broadcast in 'real time' a 100 years after the terrible event. I'm sure I have a similar mini disc of a similar 'real time' recreation of the Piper Alpha disaster. Very moving stuff.

And don't get me started on the shoe boxes full of past episodes of CD/Record Review that I've been recording since 2000!

I used to collect broadcasts on cassette tape from the 80's & 90's but, alas, these tapes have largely disintegrated. Mini-discs appear, so far, to be lasting well.

[Bryn]

My understanding, too! I've had enormous pleasure in home-taping and only last night played an off-air recording of Tosca, Act 2, with Callas & Gobbi at Covent Garden, 1964, originally rec on off-air video and subsequently transferred to HD and DVD in the digital era with improved picture and sound.

A few months ago, I did a more ambitious transfer to DVD from off-air recordings of ROH
production, Keith Warner, of the Ring Cycle/Pappano, made over a couple of years in the mid-noughties, as I've waited more than a decade for a commercial release of this fine
production. It also has a splendid 60mins intro by Snr Pappano. A prized collector's item!

Now compiling a Stravinsky portfolio on DVD from earlier off-air recordings: Riot at
The Rite, 2006, + a 2006 documentary, Stravinsky, Composer - in his own words;
a performance from Proms 2003, The Rite of Spring, BPO/Rattle, a 2002 documentary,
Masterworks/ Michael Berkeley, with a full performance of The Rite, Richard Alston
Dance Co and BBC SO/Leonard Slatkin. Finally, a Stravinsky triple, Firebird, Petrushka
and Rite of Spring, LSO/Rattle at the Barbican, 21 Sept '17. A quality evening on R3,
ALL worth shelf-space for repeated viewing.

You have, of course, got all the Stravinsky items from Radio 3's "Tchaikovsky Experience", including Lawson and Wood's Belgian Radio recording of the first two tableaux of Les Noces. Mmm , nice.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Bearing in mind how many home recordings of broadcasts have reached legitimate CD releases (because the Beeb didn't keep their own copies) - it's a damn good job that this sort of activity does go on.

[pastoralguy]

And not forgetting almost EVERY minute of the Beethoven Experience recorded over a week. That's a shoe box on its own!

[Bryn]

And not forgetting almost EVERY minute of the Beethoven Experience recorded over a week. That's a shoe box on its own!

No shoe box required if one saved the DAB mp2 version to SD card via the record facility on various Pure DAB receivers. The main drawback of that space saving method was that occasionally the Beeb switched from 192kbps discreet stereo to 160kbps joint (intensity) stereo in the middle of a piece, with nasty attendant glitch. One example of this was during Op. 91 (a live broadcast, IIRC). Since the advent of the iPlayer, DAB, at least as a recording source, is very much Dead And Buried.

[ardcarp]

Years ago a musical acquaintance of mine died. He had owned a very nice Bechstein grand. A few weeks later I was phoned by his son, acting as executor, saying his father had left me something in his will. 'Ah, the Bechstein, I thought to myself'. The son continued, "Knowing how much you loved music, Dad wanted you to have his collection of tapes." Not the Bechstein then. The tapes turned out to be boxes and boxes of the reel-to-reel variety which the deceased had recorded from the radio via a microphone and going back to Third Programme days. They were mainly Classical and Romantic symphonies. I hadn't the heart to refuse them, but sadly, they were all, shall we say, disposed of.

[cloughie]

U

I have shoe boxes full of mini-discs from 'off air' content including some fascinating documentaries. A favourite is a minute by minute account of The sinking of the Titanic that was broadcast in 'real time' a 100 years after the terrible event. I'm sure I have a similar mini disc of a similar 'real time' recreation of the Piper Alpha disaster. Very moving stuff.

And don't get me started on the shoe boxes full of past episodes of CD/Record Review that I've been recording since 2000!

I used to collect broadcasts on cassette tape from the 80's & 90's but, alas, these tapes have largely disintegrated. Mini-discs appear, so far, to be lasting well.

The MD may not be the ultimate in Hifi but as a user friendly, editable recording medium has never been surpassed. Foolishly the industry ditched it!

[Bryn]

U

The MD may not be the ultimate in Hifi but as a user friendly, editable recording medium has never been surpassed. Foolishly the industry ditched it!

Things have moved on. One can do much more with modern solid state devices such a the Zoom, Tascam, Sony and several other solid state pocket recorders. Paired with a personal computer one can store the results on hard disc, memory card etc., or burn to CD-R, recordable DVD or Blu-ray.

[Serial_Apologist]

I used to collect broadcasts on cassette tape from the 80's & 90's but, alas, these tapes have largely disintegrated.

Sorry to hear that, PG - I've had more luck insofar as the condition of my 1500 + mainly D90s remains pretty good, on the whole. thank goodness.

[LeMartinPecheur]

My understanding, confirmed by a brief reread of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, is that it isn't legal to make permanent copies of off-air copyright works.

Permitted forms of such copying are (1) a temporary copy for the purposes of time-shift viewing/ listening; (2) a permanent copy of a work where you yourself own a 'legal' copy of the work (so copying of your own CDs onto your computer, a CD-R or whatever is OK, as long as it's only for your private use).


At one time one could buy a licence to make one's home taping legal. But oddly, I think they stopped for lack of uptake

In practice of course, copyright holders won't know who's got illegitimate copies, and would only get nominal damages from you(us) if they did find out and sue. They have enough to do trying to tackle commercial infringement all over the world.

[MrGongGong]

My take on this (FWIW) is that I try to act in ways that will generate benefit for those creating music now.
SO, I have no problem with copying stuff by folks who are dead
BUT it seems mean to me to (for example) copy music by Alistair Hinton as i'm sure he needs the money more than Sony INC.
It's a bit (IMV) like the discussion a while back about crowdfunded recordings. If you are really keen on something then it seems a good idea to try and encourage more of it.

Whether that is legally "correct" or not I don't know
Many years ago I tried (as part of a residency I was doing) to persuade a BBC local radio station to pay royalties to the local bands who sometimes appeared on the station. The BBC argued that they were "doing them a favour" BUT it seemed to me that as they were perfectly happy to pay Michael Jackson they should at least do something to encourage local musicians... I didn't get anywhere with that i'm afraid.

[seabright]

My understanding, too! I've had enormous pleasure in home-taping and only last night played an off-air recording of Tosca, Act 2, with Callas & Gobbi at Covent Garden, 1964, originally rec on off-air video and subsequently transferred to HD and DVD in the digital era with improved picture and sound.

I assume you know it's been on You Tube for the last 6 years and has had nearly 280,000 well-deserved "views" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT-86OtwzDI

I might wade through the other items you name but, for starters, Riot at the Rite has been on You Tube for 5 years and has had over 157,000 "views" ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcZ7lfdhVQw

What a wonderful world-wide classical archive You Tube has turned out to be! ... For example, only the other day I was watching a Spanish TV transmission of "The Planets" and a super performance it is, since it can hardly be a familiar work for either orchestra or audience ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Av0trc_Fzt4&t=1747s