Classic FM - on balance a good or bad thing for classical music?.....

[cmr_for3]

I know one should not utter the name of the above here, but it is 25 years to the day since it's launch. I'd love to here some view on whether or not it's been a good or a bad thing for classical music and/or R3?

For my own part, it was the station which introduced me to classical music and got me to take an interest in R3.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

For my own part, it was the station which introduced me to classical music and got me to take an interest in R3.

Then it's done its job.

I don't listen to it - well, not very often; I don't think I'm its target audience. But I know people for whom it is their radio station of choice - and they seem to be nice people, on the whole, so ... Happy Birthday.

I just wish that the BBC hadn't been so terrified at the prospect of a "rival" for R3 that they tried to copy the format so much in the dark, cold days of NK and RW.

[Bryn]

Then it's done its job.

I don't listen to it - well, not very often; I don't think I'm its target audience. But I know people for whom it is their radio station of choice - and they seem to be nice people, on the whole, so ... Happy Birthday.

I just wish that the BBC hadn't been so terrified at the prospect of a "rival" for R3 that they tried to copy the format so much in the dark, cold days of NK and RW.

Spot on, I'd say.

[cloughie]

Spot on, I'd say.

Yes, I think there are some who look down on CFM. Personally prefer to hear full works, so evening output is preferable for me, but then some output on R3, Breakfast in particular, has become CFM without the ads. I tend to be a bit of a channel hopper so it is good to have CFM as a fallback if nothing suits elsewhere. Overall better there than not - can usually be relied on for a good tune!

[french frank]

Then it's done its job.

I think it was Robin Ray who said at the beginning something like 'today's Classic FM listeners will be tomorrow's Radio 3 listeners'. I don't think that has proved to have happened to any great extent. My view would be that the main reason is that Classic FM is essentialy 'popular radio' for a particular taste. Most people who listen to (popular) radio do so because the 'popular' aspects are what appeals: casual, 'lean-back' radio with engaging presenters, background sound for a lot of the time. Unless Radio 3 competes with Classic FM on those terms, it won't attract that kind of listener just because it 'plays classical music' too. People don't become more serious in their listening habits.

The same could be said about Radio 2's classic introduction programmes like Your 100 Best Tunes or Melodies For You (both now axed). Of course some people, individuals, will move on to Radio 3, and have done so. They've done so because they find Radio 3 is offering something they want. But it won't be in appreciable numbers, because Radio 3 doesn't have what they want.

I agree with ferney that the real downside of Classic FM has been the effect it has had on BBC managers who felt that the new station would take all Radio 3's listeners. Their attempts to get closer to Classic FM ('modernising', 'moving with the times' &c) was a disaster.

My view has always been that Radio 3 needs new listeners, but it's more likely to find them among those who take their music seriously - whether jazz, popular or whatever. If I were king I'd have regular, identifiable, programmes on television: a New Generations Artists chamber music programme on BBC Four. An informal concert, a rehearsal, with young performers that viewers might be able to identify with. At the same time, every week, and not at midnight.

As for Classic FM - Congratulations on 25 years! It's provided a lot of pleasure to millions of people - which is its job. Does it 'do' anything for classical music? A bit maybe. Negligible negative, in my view.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Yes, I think there are some who look down on CFM. Personally prefer to hear full works, so evening output is preferable for me, but then some output on R3, Breakfast in particular, has become CFM without the ads. I tend to be a bit of a channel hopper so it is good to have CFM as a fallback if nothing suits elsewhere. Overall better there than not - can usually be relied on for a good tune!

CFM does do "complete works" in the evenings (at least sometimes): I remember once hearing Beethoven's 8th - recorded Live, I believe - played IIRC by the SNO (which was presented as the Station's "orchestra in residence" or similar): and I think the rest of the concert was also broadcast in the programme. (I was travelling in the car, and the radio retuned itself so I alighted on the programme perspicaciously, and reached my destination - very possibly a restaurant! - before the beginning of the next item.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think it was Robin Ray who said at the beginning something like 'today's Classic FM listeners will be tomorrow's Radio 3 listeners'. I don't think that has proved to have happened to any great extent. My view would be that the main reason is that Classic FM is essentialy 'popular radio' for a particular taste. Most people who listen to (popular) radio do so because the 'popular' aspects are what appeals: casual, 'lean-back' radio with engaging presenters, background sound for a lot of the time. Unless Radio 3 competes with Classic FM on those terms, it won't attract that kind of listener just because it 'plays classical music' too. People don't become more serious in their listening habits.

The same could be said about Radio 2's classic introduction programmes like Your 100 Best Tunes or Melodies For You (both now axed). Of course some people, individuals, will move on to Radio 3, and have done so. They've done so because they find Radio 3 is offering something they want. But it won't be in appreciable numbers, because Radio 3 doesn't have what they want.

I agree with ferney that the real downside of Classic FM has been the effect it has had on BBC managers who felt that the new station would take all Radio 3's listeners. Their attempts to get closer to Classic FM ('modernising', 'moving with the times' &c) was a disaster.

My view has always been that Radio 3 needs new listeners, but it's more likely to find them among those who take their music seriously - whether jazz, popular or whatever. If I were king I'd have regular, identifiable, programmes on television: a New Generations Artists chamber music programme on BBC Four. An informal concert, a rehearsal, with young performers that viewers might be able to identify with. At the same time, every week, and not at midnight.

As for Classic FM - Congratulations on 25 years! It's provided a lot of pleasure to millions of people - which is its job. Does it 'do' anything for classical music? A bit maybe. Negligible negative, in my view.

Spot on, I'd say.

[jean]

Its first 25 years are discussed here - about 13 minutes in.

[antongould]

It gave Petroc to the world, so it has to be a good thing - doesn't it ..... ????

[Pulcinella]

Yes, I think there are some who look down on CFM. Personally prefer to hear full works, so evening output is preferable for me, but then some output on R3, Breakfast in particular, has become CFM without the ads. I tend to be a bit of a channel hopper so it is good to have CFM as a fallback if nothing suits elsewhere. Overall better there than not - can usually be relied on for a good tune!

I find it can be more suitable for a car journey (unless they're in one of their 100 top carols phases or something similar). Somehow I can blank out the ads but not R3’s wittering and twittering.
And however they transmit (compression rate stuff is way beyond me ) means that the sound is more audible in the car; we don't have a super-silent model like ts or ferney!

[DracoM]

Yes, it has succeeded in making all manner of 'classical musics' more apparently - stress that - accessible to many more people who might be scared of R3. Discuss.
BUT
for me, the by far the biggest impact has been on the terrified BBC response, generating R3 planners / presenters almost frenzied imitation etc of something like the same formula for major parts of the day. TTN, and most evening programmes are for me what R3 could be, plus top class drama and deep discussions. The rest of the day - Lunchtime Concerts apart - is Classic FM more or less. Why?

Sarah Walker, Rob Cowan and their style of progs could be on Classic FM, and in the latter's case, I lament that this is so, as I fondly recall CD Masters - the double act with Jonathan Swain - that explained, illustrated and argued intelligently and usefully. How are the mighty fallen?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

we don't have a super-silent model like ts or ferney!

"super-silent"?! My car tells me to get my a**e in gear and stop playing all that b*ll*cks on the begguring CD player!


It's a Vauxhall Coarser.

[french frank]

But to answer the thread title question: on balance, neither good nor bad for classical music. Some aspects questionable, some aspects encouraging. Balanced, IOW.

Much of the downside isn't to do with Classic FM:

Michael Fabricant MP has suggested* Classic FM is more successful, therefore better, on the grounds that it is a commercial success, having many more listeners than Radio 3. And that view is echoed mainly by people who don't like classical music anyway. It enables them to call Radio 3 'elitist' because it is quite wrong to cater for minority interests out of public funds. They listen 6 hours a day as long as they don't have to concentrate all the time, but they won't listen for 40 mins if it requires their undivided attention. And the BBC would rather they listened 6 hours a day …

* "Does the right hon. Gentleman believe that Classic FM would be the success it is if it were organised by the BBC? I think not. Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, I hope that Radio 3's shift in policy will mean that our public sector classical station now starts to provide a service that attracts listeners, as well as attracting public funds." [Hansard 1995]

[Pulcinella]

It's a Vauxhall Coarser.

But with refined taste, if it lets you enjoy the Tippett piano concerto on your travels!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But with refined taste, if it lets you enjoy the Tippett piano concerto on your travels!

It has a Cavalier attitude.