Grenfell Tower

[Hornspieler]

So where was God?
... where was Allah?
... where was Buddah?

A terrible tragedy.

Those responsible will have their wrists smacked for negligence and ignoring advice .

The prophets who promised that their dieties in another world and in another place will be accorded no blame for not coming to the aid of their believers.

I personally stopped believing in Fairy Tales when I was five years old and witnessed the death and destruction
wrought upon my neighbours by the airmen from Germany who prayed for victory to the same God to whom we prayed for salvation.


Hornspieler

I will say no more. It would not surprise me if this thread does not even see the light of day. We mustn't upset our readers, must we?

[MrGongGong]

Those responsible will have their wrists smacked for negligence and ignoring advice .

Sadly, those responsible will probably get promotions, more money, more power and sleep easy in their beds again

Mr Lydon has some things to say about this (Rise) and lets see what that "energy" brings, hopefully change

[Cockney Sparrow]

Then we're left to our own resources then. Let us hope effective leadership is found and that London, in the forthcoming hot weeks, stays peaceful.

Michael Portillo on "This Week" (BBC1, Thurs) reacted by saying he felt it was comparable to the Hillsborough and Kings Cross disasters. The old approach will be swept away in the face of this disaster - nothing can be the same, or near like it, again.

Whether this extends from tower blocks being secured as safe housing, to the much wider neglect of housing as an issue (on the "Too difficult" list for many years) remains to be seen. I've been convinced for years that the failure to set up our economy so that the less affluent section of our society can access "the decencies of life" - with housing a principal element - is grossly unjust and bound to lead to trouble. And in my analysis this has to lead back to the restricted supply of land and the grossly inflated values it reaches - to the advantage of - the banks; the rich; the landlords - look for those with a vested interest amongst those who own multiple dwellings - more than they need for themselves and their family, and of course, the large landowners.

(Personally, I'd be in favour of this thread being renamed, but not expunged..)

[teamsaint]

CS, I agree with almost every word of your post, but would just add that housing and associated cost is an issue for very large numbers of people in the UK,and not just the very poor.
But a belief that ( increasing) inequality is somehow a necessary prerequisite for economic " success" , however that is measured, has been for far too long an apparently unchallengable narrative, and sadly one that far too many people of average means have bought into. Perhaps that is about to change.

[Bryn]

In my book, those responsible for the lack of rigour in ensuring the fire safety of the refurbishment should be pursued with no less severity than those associated with the Manchester and London Bridge atrocities. I too find no source of solace in religion, but recognise that many do, and I would not wish to deny the that emotional support.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

(Personally, I'd be in favour of this thread being renamed, but not expunged..)

Point taken. Alternative heading inserted.

[Richard Barrett]

So where was God?
... where was Allah?
... where was Buddha?

Where were safety regulations? Decimated in the interests of "cutting red tape."
Where is the accountability for something like this? Transferred by privatisation from elected officials to a company managing estates for profit.
Where were the inspections? Cut by cost-saving austerity measures.
Why was the cheap inflammable cladding added to the building? So that rich local residents didn't have the inconvenience of inequality staring them in the face.
In the hopefully better future this event will be seen as pivotal. It's the inevitable result of so many dishonest and divisive strands of government policy in recent decades. In the end people don't want to live in a society where something like this can happen. The UK is still one of the wealthiest countries in the world and there is no excuse whatsoever for such a disaster. Some will object to a "political" post on this thread. Well, sorry, allowing poor people to be incinerated is political.

[Hornspieler]

Point taken. Alternative heading inserted.

Thanks for that

HS

[MrGongGong]

Where were safety regulations? Decimated in the interests of "cutting red tape."
Where is the accountability for something like this? Transferred by privatisation from elected officials to a company managing estates for profit.
Where were the inspections? Cut by cost-saving austerity measures.
Why was the cheap inflammable cladding added to the building? So that rich local residents didn't have the inconvenience of inequality staring them in the face.
In the hopefully better future this event will be seen as pivotal. It's the inevitable result of so many dishonest and divisive strands of government policy in recent decades. In the end people don't want to live in a society where something like this can happen. The UK is still one of the wealthiest countries in the world and there is no excuse whatsoever for such a disaster. Some will object to a "political" post on this thread. Well, sorry, allowing poor people to be incinerated is political.

[pastoralguy]

I've been surprised no one started a thread on this tragedy so Bravo to Hornspieler for having the courage to do it. What I hope doesn't happen is that it, (the thread), decends into anarchy.

I couldn't help but feel extremely uncomfortable this morning with the Times' reporting and the Satutday magazine showing pictures of models wearing extremely expensive clothing as well as an article about a 'fixer' for billionaires describing extreme wealth.

[Bryn]

Where were safety regulations? Decimated in the interests of "cutting red tape."
Where is the accountability for something like this? Transferred by privatisation from elected officials to a company managing estates for profit.
Where were the inspections? Cut by cost-saving austerity measures.
Why was the cheap inflammable cladding added to the building? So that rich local residents didn't have the inconvenience of inequality staring them in the face.
In the hopefully better future this event will be seen as pivotal. It's the inevitable result of so many dishonest and divisive strands of government policy in recent decades. In the end people don't want to live in a society where something like this can happen. The UK is still one of the wealthiest countries in the world and there is no excuse whatsoever for such a disaster. Some will object to a "political" post on this thread. Well, sorry, allowing poor people to be incinerated is political.

Your post may be 'political' but not party-political. The political responsibility for lack of rigour in fire safety stretches back through several national administrations of all three principal UK-mainland-wide parties.

[P. G. Tipps]

So where was God?
... where was Allah?
... where was Buddah?

A terrible tragedy.

Those responsible will have their wrists smacked for negligence and ignoring advice .

The prophets who promised that their dieties in another world and in another place will be accorded no blame for not coming to the aid of their believers.

I personally stopped believing in Fairy Tales when I was five years old and witnessed the death and destruction
wrought upon my neighbours by the airmen from Germany who prayed for victory to the same God to whom we prayed for salvation.


Hornspieler

I will say no more. It would not surprise me if this thread does not even see the light of day. We mustn't upset our readers, must we?

Right now I don't think we should be blaming anyone ...

Surely we simply should be concentrating on helping these poor, poor folk affected by this real nightmare of a disaster and instead follow the example of those who opened churches and mosques in the early hours of the morning in order to provide shelter and organise food and clothes aid for survivors. These are the people to whom we should be directing all our support.?

Let the experts in construction and safety quickly discover what exactly went so terribly wrong in this case and then the authorities should act swiftly in accordance with the findings, whatever the cost.

There is a young lady volunteer from the grieving area now being interviewed on TV who is saying there is much more love in the affected area than anger, and she is suggesting the media and press have some responsibility by concentrating on the latter. The Great Get Together for Jo Cox is a heartwarming example of just how much love surrounds us if we care to look.

Of course the locals will have justified anger as well as grief but the rest of us should not start pontificating about something that we know little or nothing about.

Finally, let's not forget the effect this must have had on those in the local emergency services. They must have been truly traumatised at what they had to witness and deserve all our grateful thanks and utter admiration.

[Richard Barrett]

Right now I don't think we should be blaming anyone ...

No, let's wait until it happens again shall we?

[Nick Armstrong]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/16/my-council-tax-rebate-from-kensington-and-chelsea-is-blood-money

[Richard Tarleton]

I couldn't help but feel extremely uncomfortable this morning with the Times' reporting

To be fair, pg, the cartoon Mr GG posted and which you've "re-tweeted" on t'other thread is from today's Times, above a fine opinion piece by Janice Turner which expresses sentiments akin to those expressed above. For what it's worth there are 10 pages of coverage of stories, pictures, analysis and opinions (not including the leader and letters) which between them should offer no comfort to the authorities and politicians.....