Starting a vinyl collection – is it worth it for classical music?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Everybody seems to like a recording of D et C that I find hard-driven, unballetic and lacking in subtlety. Monteux, Inghelbrecht, Ansermet (preferably the earlier mono), Munch, and Cluytens all have a better idea how it should "go".

I agree entirely - the Abbado is much better, too. I bought the LP on the strength of the rave reviews it received, and got the CD (which came free with the player I bought) only to make the precise comparison (the recording engineers deserve all the praise they received). The performance itself never captures either the atmosphere nor (until the very end) the excitement of the score.

[pastoralguy]

One of the first CDs I bought was of Sir Charles Mackerras conducting Elgar's 'Falstaff' with the LPO. This was a work I had long struggled with since I had no idea what was going. Owing to the copious tracks and the comprehensive booklet I was able to track EXACTLY what was going on. And that was before taking into consideration the crystal clear recording where all the orchestral details were revealed.

[vinteuil]

Owing to the copious tracks and the comprehensive booklet I was able to track EXACTLY what was going on..

... such a good point. Before CDs I was very unhappy with my many LPs of, eg Bach organ works, Scarlatti sonatas - because I might often want to listen to one / a pair of sonatas, a prelude & fugue - and trying to cue such accurately on LPs was no fun. And coz my turntable wasn't brilliant, the wow and flutter on recordings of organ works was a source of enduring misery...


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[Alain Maréchal]

Why? CD players use a digital analogue conversion (DAC) process, don't they?

The analogue part in that is what you hear. I'm not sure humans could hear a digital signal as music. The aim of an an analogue recording is to be analogous to the original.
I think over the decades the debate "LP v CD" has become confused with "analogue v digital", which is a different, though related, debate.

[Alain Maréchal]

And coz my turntable wasn't brilliant...


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The remedy lay in your hifi dealer.

[vinteuil]

The remedy lay in your hifi dealer.

... not many "hifi dealers" in Douala in 1970, nor in Constantine in 1974, nor in Madras in 1979...

And when I was back in London my limited funds had other priorities...

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I like all those and also one which never gets a mention, Maazel with the Cleveland Orchestra.

I've only heard that once - demonstration quality Decca sound (almost Sonic Stage ) but the Dawn section seemed to be a little OTT, squeezing out every last drop of drama. I must seek it out.

[jayne lee wilson]

Jayne, yes it is. I purchased the CD, played it a couple of times, was disappointed, (woolly timpani, cold trumpets, no sense of exhilaration in the coda) played an SXL and have never played the CD again. Which "LSO classic Nielsen" is meant? I only know the Schmidt set, idiomatic but under-rehearsed. As to Nielsen (one of your favourite composers, I believe, as mine) then you should try to find SLPM 139185 - Symphony 4, Markevich conducting the Hofkapellet, probably the most idiomatic Nielsen orchestra, along with the Radio SO. Nielsen was a second violin in the Hofkapellet.

Do CDs have frequencies above 20Khz? LPs do - they may not be heard, but they can be experienced. Perhaps its the upper and lower frequencies that I miss.

"The digital transfer is excellent with no loss of warmth and better definition, particularly at the bottom end of the range..."
Robert Layton on the Bluebell CD of the LSO/Ehrling Berwald 3&4, in Gramophone of 8/92. He was also the original reviewer of the vinyl issue in 11/68, and again he had nothing but praise for the Decca engineering.

The Previn Nielsen 1st, relatively little known, is this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000SM6ZG8/sr=1-2/qid=1494948963/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1494948963&sr=1-2

Original available as an RCA Navigator with the Martinon 4th, this Japanese transfer is excellent. I never heard this specific Navigator though I recall taking some others back because of the poor transfers.
The only Markevitch Nielsen 4 I can find is this one:

http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/nielsen-symphony-no-4-saga-droem-markevitch-igor-markevitch-royal-danish-orchestra/5055354491641

[Alain Maréchal]

... not many "hifi dealers" in Douala in 1970, nor in Constantine in 1974, nor in Madras in 1979...

And when I was back in London my limited funds had other priorities...

I suppose one takes Western Europe for granted. I have never lived anywhere else.

[pastoralguy]

p.p.s. <<being able to program tracks to your requirements>>. I have always trusted the composer to arrange his movements in the order he wanted (with one notable exception).

It's not a case of re-organising a composers movements. Sometimes, one wishes to omit a certain track such as a lovely cd I have of the violinist Rodney Friend playing Kreisler arrangements. It's a super cd but, since I hate Gluck's 'Melodie' I can program it out.

I also purchased a cd of Patricia Kopatchinskaja playing Schubert's 'Death and the Maiden Quartet' in an arrangement for string Orchestra with The Saint Paul's Chamber Orchestra. For reasons best known to Ms. Kopatchinskaja, she intersperses the movements of the Schubert with other composers such as Kurtag, Dowland and Gesualdo. It's an interesting juxtaposition of musical styles but, should one not care for it, you can program the CD Player to only play the Schubert.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It's programme

[vinteuil]

It's programme

... why?

[Alain Maréchal]

"The digital transfer is excellent with no loss of warmth and better definition, particularly at the bottom end of the range..."
Robert Layton on the Bluebell CD of the LSO/Ehrling Berwald 3&4, in Gramophone of 8/92. He was also the original reviewer of the vinyl issue in 11/68, and again he had nothing but praise for the Decca engineering.

The Previn Nielsen 1st, relatively little known, is this one:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000SM6ZG8/sr=1-2/qid=1494948963/ref=olp_product_details?_encoding=UTF8&me=&qid=1494948963&sr=1-2

Original available as an RCA Navigator with the Martinon 4th, this Japanese transfer is excellent. I never heard this specific Navigator though I recall taking some others back because of the poor transfers.
The only Markevitch Nielsen 4 I can find is this one:
http://www.qobuz.com/gb-en/album/nie.../5055354491641

I note that the original Berwald recording was funded by Swedish Radio for domestic broadcast. I wonder if Bluebell used different tapes or even takes from those used for the SXL. Strange that he hears better definition in the bass, because it is all there on my LP, but not my CD..

I have never considered Previn or Martinon as Nielsen interpreters*. Neither they nor those orchestras can have much idea of his folk-music background.

* I did not choose the correct English expression there. The construction is ambiguous; "considerer" is a faux ami. I do not mean that I think their interpretations poor, as I have not heard them, but that I had not thought of them in the context of Nielsen interpretation. I think autochthony matters.

Yes, that is the Markevitch, a Fono recording later on DGG, and then various inferior labels. I'm pleased it is available again. The companion LP, Tibor Varga playing the Violin concerto, does not appear to be.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

... why?

'cos Noah Webster wuz juss tryin' ter be difikult

[jayne lee wilson]

I note that the original Berwald recording was funded by Swedish Radio for domestic broadcast. I wonder if Bluebell used different tapes or even takes from those used for the SXL. Strange that he hears better definition in the bass, because it is all there on my LP, but not my CD..

I have never considered Previn or Martinon as Nielsen interpreters*. Neither they nor those orchestras can have much idea of his folk-music background.

* I did not choose the correct English expression there. The construction is ambiguous; "considerer" is a faux ami. I do not mean that I think their interpretations poor, as I have not heard them, but that I had not thought of them in the context of Nielsen interpretation. I think autochthony matters.

Yes, that is the Markevitch, a Fono recording later on DGG, and then various inferior labels. I'm pleased it is available again. The companion LP, Tibor Varga playing the Violin concerto, does not appear to be.

I guess what you're getting at here is idiomatic Nielsen interpretation, from such as Jensen and Grøndahl in their famous accounts of 2 and 4? Too long since I've heard them & given my present penchant for historical recordings it's time to return, but recent contenders might be Oramo's splendid BIS recordings in Stockholm (less so in 4 & 5) and my personal favourite, Blomstedt's first set with the Danish Radio SO, whose occasional looseness of ensemble is more than offset by a lovely feel for how the phrase and rhythm should go, the song within the symphony, that natural varying of the pulse. (I've always much preferred these classic EMI tapings to the oft-vaunted SFSO set).

Still, I think you'd find Previn's 1st a truly fascinating alternative enlivened by its own lilt and lift, and what a shame it would be never to experience Morton Gould's whizz-bang Chicago Symphony 2nd (coupled with the Martinon 4th on RCA's 24/96 transfer) whose barnstorming virtuosity doesn't come around too often. (The more flowing tempo for the malincolico - 10'01 - doesn't hurt either...)

(With Berwald I said recently: there's Sixten Ehrling; and then there's all the rest. Precisely because of that doyen's feel for the idiom, whether in Malmö (gorgeous BIS cycle), London or with the Swedish RSO (unsurpassed 1970 Sérieuse, also on a fine-sounding (in this room at least...!) Bluebell. The CD of the latter has become rare but Presto offer a lossless download http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/sea...erwald+ehrling..).

Brief, very honourable mention for Roy Goodman - back with the Berwald orchestra, the Swedish RSO again. Terrific, exceptional Hyperion sound. A set I adore. This and the various Ehrlings could last you a lifetime.