Batteries - problems - warning

[Dave2002]

I have a battery problem which I've now partially solved. Hopefully I'll get the other "half" of the problem solved soon.

The problem relates to leaving batteries in equipment for too long, or perhaps just batteries which are bad.
I have an Apple wireless keyboard, and unlike many other devices, the batteries have only one way in and out.

This makes for a neat design, but .....

...... major design flaw ......

I left my keyboard for too long (but it wasn't years) without using it, and when I went back to try it it didn't work. I then thought to change the batteries, but at that time I discovered that batteries had corroded, and would not come out. I tried simple things, but eventually bought a replacement keyboard from eBay. New models - an updated version - are over £90 - though sometimes refurbished models are available for less.

In the meantime I wondered about trying to get the original keyboard to work again, so I bought some cheap HSS drills, found my portable drill, and today I drilled out a hole in the end of the outermost battery. I then forced a screw into that hole, and (somewhat to my surprise) I was able to grasp the screw and pull the battery out with a pliers tool.

However, the second battery is still stuck inside, so I'm having to order a drill extension to see if I can repeat this process tomorrow. Actually one concern is going to be getting an extractor or screw tool far enough down inside the cylinder assuming I can drill a hole in the end of the second battery. I hope I can figure out a way to do it.

The warning aspect of this posting - if you have any gadgets, remotes, keyboards etc. which rely on batteries, and they have been put aside for a while, then do check them periodically and if you think you won't use them for a bit, then take the batteries out. This will save a lot of effort, and possibly money, later on.

I bet some of you have batteries lurking in things you've forgotten about, but perhaps don't want to lose.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks for posting this timely message, Dave!

I too have a keyboard, which I decided to fit with batteries for purposes of hoiking the instrument round to friends for joining in with their informal jam sessions, after relying on plugging it into the mains. I've just checked, and the batteries are still fully operational, thankfully, although I have not used the keyboard for a number of weeks. It's worth remembering to remove batteries from equipment in infrequent use, in order to avoid the problems you have vividly described, and I wish you success, mindful of the fact that messing with old batteries, with their potential for leaking acid, can be a dangerous business.

[Dave2002]

s_a

Glad your keyboard is OK - though I suspect that it's more for music than for typing, and may not have the neat, but silly design of the Apple product. Usually it's possible to get batteries out, even if they have burst, corroded etc., though it's best not to leave them in - asking for trouble, and it would seem even within a few months in some cases. I did hear recently from a friend who found some old Lego toys - now for use with grandchildren - and the batteries had been left in for around 25 years or so - but fortunately new parts are available - at a cost.

I think having a calendar entry to check batteries in portable devices every 3-6 months could be a good move.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm sure the proliferating number of everyday devices using batteries which eventually have to be dumped can't be good for the environment!

[Dave2002]

I'm sure the proliferating number of everyday devices using batteries which eventually have to be dumped can't be good for the environment!

I use rechargeables quite often, but they don't last for ever. Perhaps it would have been better if I'd used rechargeables in my Apple keyboard, or maybe longer lasting ones. Also, some devices don't work too well with rechargeables as the voltage is usually lower.

Having said that, I don't really think that batteries being dumped are a huge problem, compared to some others. That's not to suggest it isn't an issue, but there is much work to be done in other areas. A few days ago it was announced that the UK had a complete day without burning any coal. That's one day out of 365, which in time terms is less than 0.28%. On the same day gas was burnt, though there was a significant amount of renewable energy produced and consumed. Gas is better than coal, because the electricity production is more efficient, but it's still a fossil fuel, and there should be no complacency in this area. In other words, mostly it was "business as usual".

Energy efficiency is reported to have improved, leading to lower consumption, which is a good thing, but will it last?

I'm still trying to avoid having to take my keyboard to the tip - hopefully I'll have success in a few days, though commercial firms may not care as they can still make money by making and supplying goods which get trashed - sooner rather than later perhaps!

[Bryn]

Lots of shops have facilities for collecting batteries for recycling these days. You should never dispose of batteries in general waste, not even, indeed especially not, Li buttom cells. They present a serious threat to young children's health.

[ardcarp]

On a general point, there is a long way for battery technology to go, whether it be in vehicles or in i-phones. Smart phones are an amazing piece of kit...but very limited by their battery life. As some people know we have a boat, on which there are various bits of kit (navigational aids, electronic 'flares', etc) all of which have batteries. Bitter experierce has taught us to remove all the batteries over winter. We keep them in a separate bag at home and use them for less vital things (torches, kids' gadgets an so on) but refit the boat kit with new batteries next year. It's amazing how corrosion sets in. I am using a wireless mouse with a battery this minute. Probably much more environmentally friendly to go back to the old USB plug-in sort....in fact, I'm going to do it right now.

[Frances_iom]

Dave
just buy a gimlet (used in woodworking) often found in any box of woodworking tools - effectively a small screwed end on a bar with a T handle at the end - just screw into the end case and see it this will work - I realise it isn't electronic and blessed by Apple but probably effective unless the battery is too corroded though within a plastic enclosure this shouldn't be too much of a problem tho if a metal enclosure you make not be able to remove it - usually it is just that the battery is swollen and is tight in the holder

[johnb]

I have an Apple wireless keyboard, and unlike many other devices, the batteries have only one way in and out.

This makes for a neat design, but .....

...... major design flaw ......

I usually use Duracell and I can't remember when I last had a battery corrode when left in situ for a long time.

As far as keyboards are concerned, I am still using a wonderful 25 (or so) year old IMB Model M keyboard. (Modern keyboards are pretty rubbish in comparison.)

[Serial_Apologist]

Dave
just buy a gimlet (used in woodworking) often found in any box of woodworking tools - effectively a small screwed end on a bar with a T handle at the end - just screw into the end case and see it this will work

In that case, maybe a decent strong corkscrew would do?

[jean]

Not unless the battery is as thick as the average cork!

[Serial_Apologist]

[Dave2002]

Dave
just buy a gimlet (used in woodworking) often found in any box of woodworking tools - effectively a small screwed end on a bar with a T handle at the end - just screw into the end case and see it this will work - I realise it isn't electronic and blessed by Apple but probably effective unless the battery is too corroded though within a plastic enclosure this shouldn't be too much of a problem tho if a metal enclosure you make not be able to remove it - usually it is just that the battery is swollen and is tight in the holder

Frances

You almost came up with the solution, which was/is very similar to the plan I was adopting! The first battery was not too difficult - after about five minutes of drilling I was able to get a screw into the hole in the end of the battery and after a few tugs it came out. The second battery - further down was, and still is, more difficult. Firstly drilling a hole in that was harder as I didn't have a drill long enough. I bought some drill extenders, but they are not really very good and the drill wobbled around all over the place. I did eventually succeed as I realised that if I could improvise some sort of bush and drop it into the cylindrical hole I could constrain the drill so it wouldn't go totally out of control, so I used a socket from a cheap socket set as a kind of simple guide. The drill stlll wobbled about, but with a bit of careful manhandling (don't do this at home ....) I did get a pilot hole drilled, and then was able to enlargen it. Yesterday I tried a screw, but its diameter was too big. Today I got another one - a 3 inch 8 screw I believe, and that goes into the hole. I also bought a gimlet just in case.

Now I can get some force on the battery, but it's too stiff in the hole. I wonder if there are any chemicals which I could drop down to try to free things up, or try WD 40. My guess is that the crystals of whatever which came out of the battery have jammed along the size of the battery, and the interface with the aluminium (I'm pretty sure it's that) cylinder casing. Does anyone know enough about chemistry to have suggestions for freeing this up? I could try acids - citric, vinegar - right now things aren't looking too good, and this might turn out to be one of the "bitter experience" things mentioned in one of the earlier posts. I'm reluctant to give up having got this far, but it may turn out to be the only sensible thing to do - which would be a pity. The throw away society might be about to strike again.

[Bryn]

Have you considered that very versatile solvent, water? There is a good chance that the crystals formed from the leaked electrolyte might be water soluble. A few carefully placed drops should not lead to lasting problems.

[Dave2002]

Thanks for the tip/suggestion re water - maybe it'll work, before I start on other substances.