I’m not renewing my TV licence - any pitfalls?

[vinteuil]

Then I shall address you as Norman, from now on...

... as in the famous translation gaffe -

"The EU debate, ... when a member from Normandy came up with just the right compromise at the right time. One of the French MEPs, using an old French expression, said that this was thanks to “la sagesse normande” . The English interpretation rendered this as being “all thanks to Norman Wisdom”... "

[MrBear]

You’ve highlighted the one thing that concerns me. I don’t want a situation where some berk turns up at my house and notes that I own a TV and on the basis of that, I end up in court. Shame those 'TV Detector vans' aren’t real - they’d see I don’t use the TV.

It feels like 2,000 years of Anglo-Saxon Jurisprudence has been turned on its head and one is guilty until one can prove themselves innocent. I can’t see how I can prove that I don’t watch TV, unless I remove it from my house. That’s beyond the pale. Do we really live in a country where the state can decide which consumer items you can have in your house? And prosecute you.

I would hope that if you do get visited and you explain that you listen to music rather than watch Television this would be alright but who knows. I think I have either been out or not answered the door when they have called I dont answer my door unless its someone I am expecting or the postie. It might be worth ringing them up and explain why you are not renewing I did this years ago and got the occasional letter I am not doing this now as I like the idea of Captia wasting money sending a letter to me every three weeks.
The Television licence seems an awful system is it a hang over from when people first bought TVs? There is an assumption that every household must pay for one. I will not pay for one because I was treated so badly if I hadnt been I would have one now. Actually think I am better off without a television I spend my time better would only watch news comedies and the odd film.

[Zucchini]

I can’t see how I can prove that I don’t watch TV, unless I remove it from my house.

All you have to do is cut the cord 3cms from the back of the set

[Beef Oven!]

I would hope that if you do get visited and you explain that you listen to music rather than watch Television this would be alright but who knows. I think I have either been out or not answered the door when they have called I dont answer my door unless its someone I am expecting or the postie. It might be worth ringing them up and explain why you are not renewing I did this years ago and got the occasional letter I am not doing this now as I like the idea of Captia wasting money sending a letter to me every three weeks.
The Television licence seems an awful system is it a hang over from when people first bought TVs? There is an assumption that every household must pay for one. I will not pay for one because I was treated so badly if I hadnt been I would have one now. Actually think I am better off without a television I spend my time better would only watch news comedies and the odd film.

I rang them this week and explained why I’m not renewing. They said ok, when one of their people is in the area they will visit me to see that what I’m saying is true. I told them the TV is unplugged and not connected to the areal. I said I’m not going to put it in the loft or garage etc, I will leave it in the living room until I give it to someone or sell it. But I don’t trust them, from what I’ve heard. So maybe I won’t let them in if they come 'round.

[Beef Oven!]

All you have to do is cut the cord 3cms from the back of the set

Won’t that ruin it? I’m going to give it to a friend/family member, or if no-one wants it, I’ll flog it. I don’t want to damage it.

[Lat-Literal]

Capita is the organisation which had 37,000 jobs "available" in 2011. It informed me that while I had passed the written test it couldn't offer me a position and it wasn't under any obligation to tell me why. That was the Census for you - where visits could be arranged at any time of the day. But personally I like inviting unexpected people in. I even had the Mormons in several times. I suppose though if I smoked cannabis or was doing something else that was unlawful, I might not want a visit from the television or other authorities.

[french frank]

Won’t that ruin it? I’m going to give it to a friend/family member, or if no-one wants it, I’ll flog it. I don’t want to damage it.

I would think that if you remove the plug and have the set somewhere which wouldn't be convenient for viewing (cupboard under the stairs, behind the ironing board would be good). It wouldn't be very strong evidence of regular use if you have to cart the set out and fit the plug each time you want to watch something. It isn't as if they give you advance notice that they intend to call. But the strong point is taking them to see it rather than letting them discover it.

They have considerable experience of who is likely to be watching illegally. A hi-fi, loads of records, lots of books? No visible TV set? Nah …

People who view television should have a licence: for that reason I'm perfectly happy to cooperate with inspectors who have a pretty unpleasant job. I see it was just 3 years ago that they last wrote to me asking if my circumstances had changed (since I declared that I didn't watch television). If I still do not watch TV, would I please go to their website and confirm the fact; or telephone an 0300 number. The letter thanks me 'in advance for letting us know'.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable request so that's what I do. I prefer telephoning, though I can't remember whether I spoke to a person or just pressed a series of buttons.

[french frank]

But personally I like inviting unexpected people in.

I usually invite market researchers in, if I know the organisation. I have a memory of Mr Yi, from Ipsos Mori, coming in. We ended up with him showing me a T'ai Chi exercise in the hall passage. I still do the exercise now and again.

[Serial_Apologist]

... as in the famous translation gaffe -

"The EU debate, ... when a member from Normandy came up with just the right compromise at the right time. One of the French MEPs, using an old French expression, said that this was thanks to “la sagesse normande” . The English interpretation rendered this as being “all thanks to Norman Wisdom”... "

The usually well-known jazz singer Norma Winstone was once billposted, or introduced as Norman Wisdom, for an end-of-pier gig!

[Serial_Apologist]

Capita is the organisation which had 37,000 jobs "available" in 2011. It informed me that while I had passed the written test it couldn't offer me a position and it wasn't under any obligation to tell me why. That was the Census for you - where visits could be arranged at any time of the day. But personally I like inviting unexpected people in. I even had the Mormons in several times. I suppose though if I smoked cannabis or was doing something else that was unlawful, I might not want a visit from the television or other authorities.

I wouldn't worry too much about that, Lat. An acquaintance was once raided while smoking a joint. The police told him they were't interested in whether he was in possession of illegal substances, or even watching illegal porn, as they had two separate departments for investigating those. They were there to investigate a report that he had illegal weapons!

[Lat-Literal]

I usually invite market researchers in, if I know the organisation. I have a memory of Mr Yi, from Ipsos Mori, coming in. We ended up with him showing me a T'ai Chi exercise in the hall passage. I still do the exercise now and again.

I did T'ai Chi for a while when I was employed. Your post might just have prompted me to look into it again. At the time, I had to have a slightly longer lunch on a Tuesday to do it but it all fell apart when bosses who took well over two hours every Monday for football that was deemed to be so important as to be non negotiable moaned like mad that I was needing an hour and five minutes for something they regarded as comparatively trivial. The hassle was such that it wasn't worth it in the end but now my time is truly my own.

Do I mention the next bit? Oh what the heck. I have probably done so before. Many who have issues with the television authorities have not (a) worked loyally for Government and therefore experienced the less than sinister nature of most of it and (b) been on the end of its more suspicious parts due to nothing more than personal idiosyncrasy. I have been in both categories which all these years down the line tends to make me circumspect about it all. I suppose attitudes to civil liberties do depend largely on one's personal experience.

Shortly after 9/11, something (boredom at being alone in my flat, an anxiety condition and a genuine concern for the future welfare of us all) led me to staring at the name of Osama bin Laden for hours and feeling guided somehow to give numerical representations to the letters in it. Ultimately, I convinced myself that I could see a code in it and from that code could predict where a terrorist incident could potentially occur in 2002 in the UK. I didn't keep it to myself. I ran it past friends and family and all but one who called me a twerp believed that what I had established was uncanny. Consequently, I rang the anti terrorism hotline and, God knows why, "The Sun". Anyhow, within days, two women police officers moved in next door to me and just before Christmas I had my door smashed down while I was in work. Nothing was taken except a very cheap watch I kept by the door.

I have mentioned having been invited to join the Masons before. That happened on that day. The taxi driver who lived in the ground floor flat had seen the smashed door and asked the women police officers whether they had been in when it occurred. They seemed evasive, he said, but commented that they thought they heard a man and a woman arguing and they decided not to intervene on the grounds that it was probably a "domestic". Well, of course, no one was in my flat at all except those who had broken in. The taxi driver, drunk, invited me in to his flat to get over my upset. He was a Mason and insisted that I should speak to the head of the local Masons who he rang and there was then a short discussion.

Totally bizarre - I didn't want to join them and when the head bloke from the Masons rang me after Christmas I said no. But then other odd events kept occurring. I was in no doubt that I was under surveillance. My genuine wish to help the country had completely backfired and it was viewed as suspicious, not least I believe because I was single and while always honest and direct, people who didn't know me didn't always know what to make of me. Had I been married with the proverbial 2.4 children no one would have turned a hair.

Well, one realises afterwards. In the 1990s I had worked in the area of policy on explosives at the UN. On each visit to the UN, I had to attend a social event at the US Mission where we were all required to have our photos taken from all sides on entry while standing in a box as if on the fringes of an airport. As one of my experienced colleagues had said with dark humour, the price of the free compulsory party was to be forever on American files. By the start of the 2000s, I was working in aviation on what was sometimes sensitive policy. There were occasional periods of absence on the grounds of anxiety which did not wholly fit in with the lighter side of my demeanour which could also be considerable. That obscured the angst and I just think there was doubt. As many people say, the entire system was in a state of paranoia and that continued for many years. It continues to this day.

In 2006 I think I was "assimilated" as they saw it by being told to spend four months in aviation security while being kept at arms length from much of it. There is more - I don't think I will go into all of the detail about being wrestled to the ground late in 2005 by a plain clothes police officer in a significant railway station for no reason whatsoever and being questioned during the night but suffice it to say it was the internet nearly a decade later that informed me there was a trial anti-terrorism exercise taking place there at that time. All the while I was a genuine, loyal and committed public servant. There was nothing suspicious about me other than unusual thoughts about letters, numbers and a name.

So this stuff about not wanting "the authorities" to ring the door bell about a TV licence. I think it is over-reaction because I have experienced a hell of a lot more and accepted it.

[Beef Oven!]

I would think that if you remove the plug and have the set somewhere which wouldn't be convenient for viewing (cupboard under the stairs, behind the ironing board would be good). It wouldn't be very strong evidence of regular use if you have to cart the set out and fit the plug each time you want to watch something. It isn't as if they give you advance notice that they intend to call. But the strong point is taking them to see it rather than letting them discover it.

They have considerable experience of who is likely to be watching illegally. A hi-fi, loads of records, lots of books? No visible TV set? Nah …

People who view television should have a licence: for that reason I'm perfectly happy to cooperate with inspectors who have a pretty unpleasant job. I see it was just 3 years ago that they last wrote to me asking if my circumstances had changed (since I declared that I didn't watch television). If I still do not watch TV, would I please go to their website and confirm the fact; or telephone an 0300 number. The letter thanks me 'in advance for letting us know'.

I think it's a perfectly reasonable request so that's what I do. I prefer telephoning, though I can't remember whether I spoke to a person or just pressed a series of buttons.

I’m struggling to get my head around this. It is clear to me that having stopped watching TV and therefore not renewing my licence for the first time in almost 30 consecutive years of having one in my name, I am now guilty of watching TV without a licence and must immediately set about proving my innocence..

(I am going to remove it to a spare room today, because it seems incredibly stupid to put myself at risk, but I really resent being told by the state where in my house I’m allowed to have my TV).

[Serial_Apologist]

I’m struggling to get my head around this. It is clear to me that having stopped watching TV and therefore not renewing my licence for the first time in almost 30 consecutive years of having one in my name, I am now guilty of watching TV without a licence and must immediately set about proving my innocence..

(I am going to remove it to a spare room today, because it seems incredibly stupid to put myself at risk, but I really resent being told by the state where in my house I’m allowed to have my TV).

I couldn't agree more. That said, I was once told that wherever one located one's TV the authorities could detect its precise location, even were it not in use, at the time or ever, because their detector systems were that accurate, and that one could be suspect.

They wouldn't do that, surely??

I remember one place where I lived, the little kids from up the street would come banging on the door and ringing the bell, shouting "Detector van coming, mister! Hide your telly away, quick!"

[Beef Oven!]

I couldn't agree more. That said, I was once told that wherever one located one's TV the authorities could detect its precise location, even were it not in use, at the time or ever, because their detector systems were that accurate, and that one could be suspect.

They wouldn't do that, surely??

I remember one place where I lived, the little kids from up the street would come banging on the door and ringing the bell, shouting "Detector van coming, mister! Hide your telly away, quick!"

Detecter vans are no problem for me, in fact it’s good for me because it will show I’m not using my TV.

(I can relate to your anecdote - in a place where I lived, from time to time you’d hear someone shout "helmet!" whereupon anyone up to no good, or possessing things they shouldn’t, could take remedial action)

[Lat-Literal]

I wouldn't worry too much about that, Lat. An acquaintance was once raided while smoking a joint. The police told him they were't interested in whether he was in possession of illegal substances, or even watching illegal porn, as they had two separate departments for investigating those. They were there to investigate a report that he had illegal weapons!

At least he had a knock at the door!