The Round Ball Game - II

[cloughie]

Forum round up

CL Semi 1st leg

Liverpool 5 Roma 2 Were 5-0 up before conceding twice in 5 mins

League

Bristol Rovers 1 Wigan Athletic 1 Led at half time
Coventry City 2 Lincoln City 4 Play off place still in their own hands
Bognor Regis Town 0 Chelmsford City 1 Early goal,play offs assured
Weston Super Mare 0 Truro City 2 1 point from last game will secure a play off spot
Livingston 0 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 1 Unbeaten in 10 league games,outside chance of the play offs

Good to see the White Tigers holding in there for a playoff spot - a forum minnow play-off final still an outside chance, Alison!

[BBMmk2]

I hope that Liverpool fan recovers from his injuries.

[Lat-Literal]

Does anyone actually prefer new style not very British football grounds? So much has changed since Simon Inglis's excellent ‘The Football Grounds of England and Wales’ (CollinsWillow, 1983) - https://www.amazon.co.uk/Football-Gr...9NC9250Q5CHWE3 - and even the second edition published in the 1990s to reflect Lord Justice Taylor's Report following the 1989 Hillsborough disaster. As someone who originally always stood on the terraces, I was among those who principally lamented in immediate change the advent of all seater stadiums.

With hindsight, this aspect was comparatively trifling. A typical modern critique would include phrases like "too corporate", "plastic food" and "not enough atmosphere", to which I might personally have added "a lack of history", "they are not always rectangular" and "like being in a mixture of hotel, office, shopping centre, fast food joint, multi-storey car park and gym".

But having watched in the past couple of days a lot of amateur YT clips of fans visiting and reviewing new stadia as well as redeveloped ones, I have concluded that the main issue I have is a lack of "windows". This is to say that the gaps in the corners are filled in and there is little or no sight of local buildings beyond the stadia from inside them. This means that most could be anywhere. They are floating in space. And a day there would barely qualify as being outside. Of course, this doesn't generally apply to teams which are non-league or were historically mainly non-league. There the absence of significant infrastructure means that they are not far removed from a pitch on a recreation ground. It is the other extreme.

I feel in what has occurred and what will continue to occur - see, for example, plans for Selhurst Park - that architect Archibald Leitch - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Leitch - is just one individual, maybe the main individual, who has been badly served. There seems to be no appreciation of all he achieved. Few blue plaques and fewer remnants of buildings.

So what are the exceptions? For credibility, these would have to have a future. For example, I know of a Brentford supporter who has had a season ticket for decades but will relinquish it once they move to a new ground with the prices that will go with it. And some supporters of some other clubs will currently be in the ludicrous position of being torn between wanting success and yet not on the basis that success will raise similar sorts of issues. The examples of better practice here would require a belief of a club inf its own stadium, come what may.

Fulham, irrespective of moderate planned improvements? Charlton, albeit it's mainly 80s? Portsmouth, given plans are always delayed? Yeovil Town, albeit it is non-league in essence?

Certain Scottish grounds?

[teamsaint]

I prefer SMS to the Dell.
on a good day, a really good day, the Dell was wonderful. Like the 3-2 win over Liverpool in 79. Generally best when the weather was hot, not least because the Milton and Archers Road ends were mostly uncovered in the terrace days.

I've seem two thirds of way too many games , often soaking wet, to be nostalgic for standing , ( being a short arse Napoleon complex type) .
SMS is pretty bland but the views are good, and the atmosphere can be great. Plus you get to stay dry, the toilets are passable, ( I read somebody complaining about lack of paper towels to dry their hands the other day........!!)
The food is rubbish I expect, but if you want artisan grub at football, you need to go support Forest Green Rovers.

Interesting point about not seeing the surrounding area. Never occurred to me before. At SMS we see a lot of planes coming in to land at the airport, which is occasionally a welcome distraction.

At Barnsley a few years ago I parked near the stadium, and realised that I could see my car from my seat, which was reassuring !!

Worst league ground I have been to was the Manor at Oxford. Awful. Huge fences, with vast steel posts.

Worst Police. The Met at Leyton Orient, and the T- shirt wearing, Machine gun wielding cops at the old Stadio Communale in Turin.

Biggest terrace. The Valley. 3000 of us huddled in the middle of acres of crumbling concrete, with police horses to keep marauding Charlton fans at bay.

[Lat-Literal]

I prefer SMS to the Dell.
on a good day, a really good day, the Dell was wonderful. Like the 3-2 win over Liverpool in 79. Generally best when the weather was hot, not least because the Milton and Archers Road ends were mostly uncovered in the terrace days.

I've seem two thirds of way too many games , often soaking wet, to be nostalgic for standing , ( being a short arse Napoleon complex type) .
SMS is pretty bland but the views are good, and the atmosphere can be great. Plus you get to stay dry, the toilets are passable, ( I read somebody complaining about lack of paper towels to dry their hands the other day........!!)
The food is rubbish I expect, but if you want artisan grub at football, you need to go support Forest Green Rovers.

Interesting point about not seeing the surrounding area. Never occurred to me before. At SMS we see a lot of planes coming in to land at the airport, which is occasionally a welcome distraction.

At Barnsley a few years ago I parked near the stadium, and realised that I could see my car from my seat, which was reassuring !!

Worst league ground I have been to was the Manor at Oxford. Awful. Huge fences, with vast steel posts.

Worst Police. The Met at Leyton Orient, and the T- shirt wearing, Machine gun wielding cops at the old Stadio Communale in Turin.

Biggest terrace. The Valley. 3000 of us huddled in the middle of acres of crumbling concrete, with police horses to keep marauding Charlton fans at bay.

Thank you for your interesting comments.

Very interesting.

I've never actually been to a match at Southampton. My understanding is that The Dell had about seven sides!

I'm not sure if the "windows" point is about distraction. It is about a placing in the locality and the great outdoors. You would still get this, for example, at most cricket grounds. The terracing, of course, came with or without roofs. I didn't get rained on much on the North Bank. But a year or so before its disaster, we were soaked to the skin at Hillsborough as neutrals although we were backing the home side on the day. There was thunder, lightening and fog and I found it wonderfully atmospheric but then I was at a different, young age.

Still, it seems to me that the British weather was a key part of the experience. I also happen to like dilapidated facilities as an antidote to a 1968 home and everywhere else. Perhaps that is the side of me who would rather pitch a tent. Or the one who took a position against slum clearance and the new Aylesbury Estate, SE17 when aged six. Fear, mainly, but also I was a political visionary before I could walk. One of my fondest memories is having had to stand with others on the roof of an old toilet block at Highbury in bright summer sunshine because the North Bank was too crowded. On the same day, Scarborough entered the league and one of their supporters climbed onto a roof in that ground and sadly fell to his death.

While what led to the Taylor Report and its recommendations should never be underestimated, it will be seen in the much longer term that the destruction of stadiums was essentially about making a fast buck. Like everything. Consequently, standing will probably be coming back....led perhaps by dear old Craven Cottage and then no doubt in arenas with less soul:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhH0rQwLRS4

[Lat-Literal]

Actually, given your reminiscence and comments on safety, I'd say that 98% of the matches I attended felt safe. I was never an away supporter as such - or rarely - although I have attended matches as a neutral either alone or with friends who supported those clubs. Mostly I was at Arsenal - sporadically early on then for more than two decades after three years of home matches at York. The list of grounds I went to is short and downright bizarre - Arsenal (two), York (one), Hull City old ground, Middlesbrough old ground, Sheff Wed, Man Utd, Norwich City, Chelsea, Spurs, Crystal Palace, West Ham old ground, Fulham, Charlton at Selhurst Park, Millwall old ground, Carshalton Athletic, Whyteleafe, Wembley for England, Arsenal or York, old and new, Ajax old ground, Marseille old ground, AC Milan at the San Siro, Denmark v Bulgaria at Estadio Municipal, Braga, Euro 2004 and Haarlem, now defunct.

Coins were an issue both at the San Siro and at White Hart Lane. The first was my main early experience of a modern stadium. I was with a woman there and she got a bit frightened. It was seating. The coins were light and accompanied by orange peel but it all felt very steep and closed in. The Spurs moment was much worse as it involved pushing among Chelsea supporters. There were barriers which to me felt more dangerous. There were also locked fences which the police refused to open until the last minute. It could have ended tragically. Once we had escaped onto the pitch through the one door opened late, we were pelted by coins from Spurs supporters and rushed at by police on horses for being there. Seeing I had decided to go purely on bumping at the local station into my best mate when we were four, a Chelsea supporter, I rather regretted it especially as I am neither for Chelsea or Spurs.

Car parking, I think, can be an issue. I'm also short. A friend had wanted to stand in the Stretford End for the experience. I drove him to Old Trafford from York for a match in which Man Utd played Nottingham Forest. Once there, there was so much swaying that we ended up with tens of people between us. I quite liked the atmosphere but it was unsettling first not to find him and then when I did to try to have to find the car. At the old Middlesbrough ground, they had had problems at previous matches and four of us were unequivocally in the away end reading a programme which said away supporters were not welcomed.. We were kept late in the ground and then told to take a route out of the city rather than into it so it was a devil of a job to get back there and find where we had parked. I can't imagine that either coins or cars would represent a problem in this security and car parking conscious age.

Attitude can make a hell of a difference.

I went to the old Den on a wintry night with a pal who attitudinally was like Foggy in Last of the Summer Wine. An absolute contradiction of huge global traveller and our Englishman abroad, he was UKIP before UKIP ever existed so ours at the time was a very unholy alliance. Having visited every league ground in Britain, he went on to spend weekends trying to do every ground in Belgium. I am in no doubt that he achieved it. But his greatest claim to fame was walking down the Shankhill Road in Northern Ireland towards what he thought would be a match on the Catholic side, coming up against a wall and on losing his temper telling all the people in the immediate vicinity that their conflict was a bloody inconvenience to him.

In this light, I was able to tell myself on the night of the Millwall match that not only should I have been a Millwall supporter really - the men in my mother's family were all Millwall and Charlton - but should anything go off he would be there saying "I don't think this sort of thing is in the best spirit, my good fellow". The sheer shock of someone of his kind being in that environment, especially as he was only in his 20s, albeit going on 75, would have brought any knife based shenanigans to a total standstill. It was, therefore, entirely without incident.

[BBMmk2]

I see that Roma fan has been arrested.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Talking of safety, remember when I was in the 6th form and my Leeds United supporting school music teacher took his two A-level students to watch Leeds hosting Manchester City at Elland Road. We were standing on the terraces amongst a huge crowd of Leeds fans, shouting for Manchester City, but the Leeds fans were surprisingly friendly to these two away fans (though I was really a Stockport County supported, and my friend was a Man U supporter). It was well into the second half before a frustrated Leeds fan turned to me and shouted "Aw, shut up!". Of course, the Leeds fans had the last laugh, winning 2-0.

What a game though. Lee, Bell and Summerbee against Bremner, Lorimer, Hunter & Jack Charlton all at their peak.

[EdgeleyRob]

Europa League semi 1st leg

Arsenal 1 Atletico Madrid 1 Played v 10 men for 80 mins,scored 1st but Madrid got the away goal

League

Deveronvale 5 Fort William 0
Selkirk 1 Vale of Leithen 1

[Lat-Literal]

Europa League semi 1st leg

Arsenal 1 Atletico Madrid 1 Played v 10 men for 80 mins,scored 1st but Madrid got the away goal

League

Deveronvale 5 Fort William 0
Selkirk 1 Vale of Leithen 1

Yep.

Arsenal possession 76%-24%, shots 28-6, corners 11-0.

Arguably there should have been a substitution. Iwobi?

But perhaps Koscielny and Griezmann get along too well?

http://metro.co.uk/2016/12/19/antoine-griezmann-reveals-laurent-koscielny-always-talks-to-him-about-arsenal-transfer-move-6333812/

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/arsenal/transfer-talk/news/atletico-want-koscielny-for-gimenez_320378.html

To my mind, this all re-raises the "where do your sympathies lie?" discussion.

With Wenger, it's Arsenal. With Ozil, it was often the German national team.

Koscielny may not have wished to be known in 2018 as the man who was anti Atletico Madrid.

[Lat-Literal]

Very dubious priorities in the wording of this headline:

FA promises £600m Wembley windfall will go to grassroots football:

• Money from prospective sale would fund up to 1,500 new pitches
• Fulham owner Khan hopes to complete sale in two to three months

(bolding added by me)

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/apr/27/fa-promises-600m-wembley-windfall-will-go-to-grassroots-football

Well, well, well.

How timely were my stadium posts.

The iconic Wembley pre Norman Foster was erased in favour of one which by common consensus has no atmosphere. The latter was designed with the support of £40m of Government money and £120m of National Lottery money to be multi-purpose. It is ok for concerts and especially good for American NFL which sporadically takes place there and is often sold out.

The proposal to sell it which has been largely drawn up by the FA in secret - the Government was unaware - allegedly involves support for grass roots football to the tune of £600m. In the world of football, that amount is so tiny it is almost laughable. Given that the aim would be for Wembley to be a home for NFL throughout an entire season every year, it is actually the first move in relegating football itself to second class status behind NFL. One will stand on the downs 15 miles away, as one does, viewing the McDonalds style arch - never of itself the twin towers - and observe "that's the home of the new national sport - it is in its history almost wholly American. What next? The British Constitution?". Yep, when one is written.

The colonisation of the working class game has long been considered as a given. Someone important should issue a formal apology. With a few exceptions, football supporters allowed themselves to be walked on by second hand car dealers and other spivs in suits. A few are even saying today that Wembley should be sold precisely as it has no atmosphere for football. But England internationals may not be able to be scheduled if this regime change is ushered through. The position on the FA Cup will be uncertain. And any big clubs which provide the use of their stadium as an alternative will be in a league of their own. Many thought it was over 22 years ago......it is now and nobody in protest will be allowed anywhere near the pitch.

No Bovril = Krispy Kreme donuts all round.

[Lat-Literal]

Current number of bids for hosting World Cup 2026:

2.

A. Ludicrous N America Continent Bid (US/Canada/Mexico) designed to reduce supporters' ability to get to any stadium to nil - this could be the start of games of six halves for adverts.
B. Morocco.

The threat against countries who vote for Morocco is contained in a Presidential tweet:

"It would be a shame if countries that we always support were to lobby against the U.S. bid. Why should we be supporting these countries when they dont support us (including at UN)?"

[EdgeleyRob]

Football Pink

Aberdeen 2 Hearts 0 1st half goals,back to back league wins,2nd
Liverpool 0 Stoke City 0 Off day but bigger fish to fry
Burnley 0 Brighton 0 Winless in 6 league games,5 points clear of the drop zone
Crystal Palace 5 Leicester City 0 Forum derby,Eagles all but safe,Foxes 1 point from last 4 league games
Newcastle United 0 West Brom 1 Conceded in the 1st half,mid table
Southampton 2 Bournemouth 1 Forum derby,Saints 1st win in 9 league games,remain 3rd bottom,Cherries winless in 5 league games,6 points clear of danger
Swansea City 0 Chelsea 1 Led from the 4th min,3rd straight win,2 points outside the top 4,good result for Southampton
St Johnstone 1 Partick Thistle 1 Forum derby,Perth Saints led at the break,Jags late pen,2 points clear of the bottom team
Wolves 0 Sheffield Wednesday 0 Forum derby,champions now on 99 points,Owls safe in mid table
Bristol Rovers 1 Gillingham 1 Took the lead on 86 mins inly to concede on 94 mins
Wigan Athletic 1 Wimbledon 1 Led at half time,unbeaten in 5 league games,3 points clear of the drop zone
Cheltenham Town 1 Coventry City 6 4-0 up at half time,a point on the last day will secure the play off place
Stevenage 3 Exeter City 1 Late consolation goal after going 3 down just after the break but play off spot guaranteed
Fort William 3 Turriff United 7 Usual stuff

Last regular fixtures of the season for the teams below

Macclesfield Town 2 Dagenham and Redbridge 0 Late goals,won the title by 10 points
Tranmere Rovers 1 Hartlepool United 2 1st half pen and a late 2nd,finished 15th
Wrexham 0 Fylde 0 Inly 1 win in last 9 league games,finished 10th
Brackley Town 2 York City 0 Conceded twice in the 2nd half,finished 5 points outside the play offs
Stockport County 1 Darlington 1 Behind at the break,crowd of 6163 a record for this level,finished 5th,Chorley at home on Wednesday in the play off quarter final,trouble is I'll miss the final if we get there because I'll be on holiday
Eastbourne Borough 0 Chelmsford City 3 All the goals in the 2nd half,finished 3rd so straight into the play off semis
Hampton and Richmond 1 Truro City 1 Took the lead early,finished in the last play off spot,so the same team away on Wednesday in the quarter final
Falkirk 1 St Mirren 0 Conceded on 85 mins,won the league by 12 points
Greenock Morton 0 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3 Easy win,finished the season with a 12 game unbeaten run,missed the play offs by 2 points
Queen's Park 3 Arbroath 0 1st league win in ages,finished 2nd bottom so now face a relegation play off
Peterhead 2 Edinburgh City 1 Lost it on 90 mins after getting back level 1-1,finished 8 points clear of bottom spot
St Ives Town 0 Hereford 2 Won the league with 113 points,36 wins,scored 133 goals conceding only 33

Manchester City,Arsenal and Manchester United play tomorrow
Tottenham play on Monday

No game for Selkirk
East Stirlingshire have completed their fixtures

[Lat-Literal]

Football Pink

Aberdeen 2 Hearts 0 1st half goals,back to back league wins,2nd
Liverpool 0 Stoke City 0 Off day but bigger fish to fry
Burnley 0 Brighton 0 Winless in 6 league games,5 points clear of the drop zone
Crystal Palace 5 Leicester City 0 Forum derby,Eagles all but safe,Foxes 1 point from last 4 league games
Newcastle United 0 West Brom 1 Conceded in the 1st half,mid table
Southampton 2 Bournemouth 1 Forum derby,Saints 1st win in 9 league games,remain 3rd bottom,Cherries winless in 5 league games,6 points clear of danger
Swansea City 0 Chelsea 1 Led from the 4th min,3rd straight win,2 points outside the top 4,good result for Southampton
St Johnstone 1 Partick Thistle 1 Forum derby,Perth Saints led at the break,Jags late pen,2 points clear of the bottom team
Wolves 0 Sheffield Wednesday 0 Forum derby,champions now on 99 points,Owls safe in mid table
Bristol Rovers 1 Gillingham 1 Took the lead on 86 mins inly to concede on 94 mins
Wigan Athletic 1 Wimbledon 1 Led at half time,unbeaten in 5 league games,3 points clear of the drop zone
Cheltenham Town 1 Coventry City 6 4-0 up at half time,a point on the last day will secure the play off place
Stevenage 3 Exeter City 1 Late consolation goal after going 3 down just after the break but play off spot guaranteed
Fort William 3 Turriff United 7 Usual stuff

Last regular fixtures of the season for the teams below

Macclesfield Town 2 Dagenham and Redbridge 0 Late goals,won the title by 10 points
Tranmere Rovers 1 Hartlepool United 2 1st half pen and a late 2nd,finished 15th
Wrexham 0 Fylde 0 Inly 1 win in last 9 league games,finished 10th
Brackley Town 2 York City 0 Conceded twice in the 2nd half,finished 5 points outside the play offs
Stockport County 1 Darlington 1 Behind at the break,crowd of 6163 a record for this level,finished 5th,Chorley at home on Wednesday in the play off quarter final,trouble is I'll miss the final if we get there because I'll be on holiday
Eastbourne Borough 0 Chelmsford City 3 All the goals in the 2nd half,finished 3rd so straight into the play off semis
Hampton and Richmond 1 Truro City 1 Took the lead early,finished in the last play off spot,so the same team away on Wednesday in the quarter final
Falkirk 1 St Mirren 0 Conceded on 85 mins,won the league by 12 points
Greenock Morton 0 Inverness Caledonian Thistle 3 Easy win,finished the season with a 12 game unbeaten run,missed the play offs by 2 points
Queen's Park 3 Arbroath 0 1st league win in ages,finished 2nd bottom so now face a relegation play off
Peterhead 2 Edinburgh City 1 Lost it on 90 mins after getting back level 1-1,finished 8 points clear of bottom spot
St Ives Town 0 Hereford 2 Won the league with 113 points,36 wins,scored 133 goals conceding only 33

Manchester City,Arsenal and Manchester United play tomorrow
Tottenham play on Monday

No game for Selkirk
East Stirlingshire have completed their fixtures

York - predictable.

Good luck to Stockport. Well done to Southampton.

Well done to Palace although I have gone off Hodgson following a viewing of a few clips of him on YT.

This was the week when I played my triple captain card - on Salah - so that was extremely bad timing.

Before today, I was up to around 590,000 in fantasy football out of 5.9 million people - my best showing since Week 7.

I doubt that will be maintained.

[teamsaint]

Thanks for the round up ER. Always appreciated.

An absolute humdinger of a game at SMS today. End to end excitement, nerves, great goals, huge commitment from both teams, unbelievable tension for the Saints in the last ten minutes, and win that we deserved. Tadic is just a joy to watch when at his best.
Definitely a lifeline,hopefully we can make best use of it.