The Round Ball Game - II

[Dave2002]

Just heard on radio: six French fans travelled to Bucharest rather than Budapest ...

... what's 520 miles between friends ....?? ...

[Dave2002]

France ahead at the Puskas....some rollercoaster we have tonight....

2-2 at Puskas now, so.... have to watch them both for last 30'..... see ya later....!

So France, Germany and Portugal survive!

Portugal was in top, 2nd, 3rd and bottom place at times in their game.

[jayne lee wilson]

So it is the other Old Enemy after all next Tuesday, at Wembley... some match, some history, and some build-up that will be.

As a Liverpool fan I've had some wonderful, and some heartbreaking, great and memorable and tragic European Nights. But tonight's conclusion to Group F was almost as exciting as any of those, a thrilling night's International Football as only a tournament (and our multiple-tracking technologies) can create, and neither Liverpool nor England were involved!

Emotionally draining....Thank Goodness we have a break before the Round of Sixteen.... !

[DracoM]

Amazing two hours of footie!

[Edgy 2]

Amazing two hours of footie!

What drama

[DracoM]

.............and more to come ... like next Tuesday??

[johncorrigan]

Belgium v Portugal looks a potential cracker of a game. Great performance by Hungary this evening, but Muller coming on made all the difference for the Germans. Great watch, though I missed two goals cos I nipped to the kitchen for a beer and a trip to the loo...typical.

[Dave2002]

Football strategy?

Does the time wasting/run down the clock sort of activity which I think we saw in the France v Portugal game tonight in the last few minutes once each team was certain to proceed by preserving the status quo make sense? Once each team is sure to go through to the next round or the main knockout tournament the players seemed to relax and indulge in activities which on the face of it posed no real threat to their opposition.

I've seen that before - but in a normal season where each match may count, it probably doesn't make sense. In a tournament this kind of behaviour might conserve energy for each of the opposing teams, and presumably the worst that can happen is that the teams will meet again later in the competition - which would at least present a known kind of threat. Is there a real sense in which going for a kill at that stage would actually not be productive - for either team - so they effectively settle for a draw? It's not exactly collaboration, but it's not outright aggressive competition either.

Is this strategic play?

[jayne lee wilson]

Belgium v Portugal looks a potential cracker of a game. Great performance by Hungary this evening, but Muller coming on made all the difference for the Germans. Great watch, though I missed two goals cos I nipped to the kitchen for a beer and a trip to the loo...typical.

Its always The Cats here. They tend to come on in the last few minutes for a bit of time-wasting. Unfortunately in the adjacent room, with JLW looking the wrong way...

[johncorrigan]

Does the time wasting/run down the clock sort of activity which I think we saw in the France v Portugal game tonight in the last few minutes once each team was certain to proceed by preserving the status quo make sense? Once each team is sure to go through to the next round or the main knockout tournament the players seemed to relax and indulge in activities which on the face of it posed no real threat to their opposition.

I've seen that before - but in a normal season where each match may count, it probably doesn't make sense. In a tournament this kind of behaviour might conserve energy for each of the opposing teams, and presumably the worst that can happen is that the teams will meet again later in the competition - which would at least present a known kind of threat. Is there a real sense in which going for a kill at that stage would actually not be productive - for either team - so they effectively settle for a draw? It's not exactly collaboration, but it's not outright aggressive competition either.

Is this strategic play?

The Germans did it too, Dave, with the classic getting a corner and then keeping the ball out there, hitting it off the legs of a rival for another corner/throw-in - Muller wasted a couple of minutes at least out there, as far from his own goal as he could get. When a team is doing it to your team you hate it, but you expect your own team, in a similar situation, to run down the clock in a similar way. Turkey were caught out by it against Wales - it looked like Wales were going to do the same and then Bale darted inside along the line and on the second attempt knocked it inside for Wales' second goal. That's a more enjoyable way to run down time!

[Dave2002]

The Germans did it too, Dave, with the classic getting a corner and then keeping the ball out there, hitting it off the legs of a rival for another corner/throw-in - Muller wasted a couple of minutes at least out there, as far from his own goal as he could get. When a team is doing it to your team you hate it, but you expect your own team, in a similar situation, to run down the clock in a similar way. Turkey were caught out by it against Wales - it looked like Wales were going to do the same and then Bale darted inside along the line and on the second attempt knocked it inside for Wales' second goal. That's a more enjoyable way to run down time!

Thanks, but why don't teams just "go for the jugular" and fight to get another goal? There is a danger that something will go wrong, and a goal will go against them - but if they can guard against that why is running down time a sensible or good strategy?

[johncorrigan]

Thanks, but why don't teams just "go for the jugular" and fight to get another goal? There is a danger that something will go wrong, and a goal will go against them - but if they can guard against that why is running down time a sensible or good strategy?

That's what you would want to do, I suppose, but there is still an element of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, Dave. Germany played for the draw - they knew that a draw was enough to see them through - to take the chance of the win might leave them open to the counter-attack, and since Hungary had hit them twice like that, I suppose it was a case of 'Twice bitten, thrice shy', if you catch my drift.

[LHC]

That's what you would want to do, I suppose, but there is still an element of a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, Dave. Germany played for the draw - they knew that a draw was enough to see them through - to take the chance of the win might leave them open to the counter-attack, and since Hungary had hit them twice like that, I suppose it was a case of 'Twice bitten, thrice shy', if you catch my drift.

If Hungary had scored again in the final 5 minutes, the chances of Germany being able to equalise in the time remaining are also vanishingly small, so Hungary score and Germany go out. The potential risk associated with conceding a goal is therefore much greater the closer you get to the end of the match.

All four teams played fantastic football for 90 minutes. I think we can allow them a degree of pragmatism at the end of such exciting games. Its not like England the other night, who stopped playing after 40 minutes.

[gurnemanz]

Split loyalties in this house, my wife being German but she's not a huge football fan and will either be neutral or not watch.

Memories of watching England-Germany in Germany:

I shan't forget aged 17 watching the 1966 World Cup Final on a tiny TV in a very crowded pub in Baden-Baden.

Four years later came the terrible experience of watching the quarter final v West Germany with a large group of Germans in someone's flat in Nuremberg. Copious Frankenwein was on offer and at 2-0 to England I was quite merry and guilty of premature gloating, only to sink back deflated in my chair as Gerd Müller scored an extra time winner.

[johncorrigan]

If Hungary had scored again in the final 5 minutes, the chances of Germany being able to equalise in the time remaining are also vanishingly small, so Hungary score and Germany go out. The potential risk associated with conceding a goal is therefore much greater the closer you get to the end of the match.

All four teams played fantastic football for 90 minutes. I think we can allow them a degree of pragmatism at the end of such exciting games. Its not like England the other night, who stopped playing after 40 minutes.

Well it was certainly the case in the Hungary/ Germany game - Muller coming off the bench for the Germans was the crucial turning point, I thought. I only saw limited highlights of the France game, but the pass from Pogba to Mbape near the start of the game was thing of beauty. Looking forwards, Wales/England semi could be a possibility. As far as I can see from my ready reckoner, Belgium would have to get past Portugal, and potentially Italy to get to a semi versus France, so England look to be in the less difficult half of the draw as Germany and Netherlands don't look quite as dangerous...but who knows what will happen? Not me!