Are questions on pop music legit. for University Challenge?

[french frank]

even if the gulf between the interesting music and the commercially successful music is mostly far wider than it was in the 1960s and 70s.

That is a key point that I was suggesting (from a far more distant viewpoint than you!) might be the case.

'Classic' maybe. But would UC ask questions about the Evs or Buddy Holly? Who is listening to them now? Presley I deliberately omitted because he had a voice - thought the material was not always very interesting. And the Beatles were (it seems to me) at the beginning of a new era. The Stones and The Animals maybe paving the way for punk?

[Beef Oven!]

Elegantly put.

I do wonder, though whether popular music, esp British, went through a golden age where quality music was being produced; so those who were 'of an age' then (now in their 50s?) continue in their admiration. Being a generation earlier I can't imagine why anyone would have more than a purely nostalgic reason to remember what was largely 'pop music' in their day: Buddy Holly and the Crickets? the Everly Brothers? Guy Mitchell? Tommy Steele? The Four Seasons? Adam Faith? And a host of Marty Wildes, Dickie Prides, Billy Furies … By the time I reached my early twenties I had no further interest in the new 'kids' stuff'; and no interest in what I had once listened to. The Bowies et al just passed me by.

The list of 1950s artists that you give misses many extraordinary talents of the day. You name Buddy Holly, who is a near-genius IMV, almost up there with Mozart in terms of popular music.

[french frank]

The list of 1950s artists that you give misses many extraordinary talents of the day. You name Buddy Holly, who is a near-genius IMV, almost up there with Mozart in terms of popular music.

I missed that. I remember 'Peggy Sue' and 'Peggy Sue Got Married' with a lot of the hiccuping style of singing also practised by Adam Faith. The other extraordinary talents being?

[Beef Oven!]

I missed that. I remember 'Peggy Sue' and 'Peggy Sue Got Married' with a lot of the hiccuping style of singing also practised by Adam Faith. The other geniuses being?

I never said geniuses.

[teamsaint]

The list of 1950s artists that you give misses many extraordinary talents of the day. You name Buddy Holly, who is a near-genius IMV, almost up there with Mozart in terms of popular music.

spot on about Buddy.

Really out of place on that list.
There are special times in specific areas of music. When these are/were is open to interpretation, but what matters is what inspires, and the strength of the medium through which the music is delivered plays a part in this .

[Beef Oven!]

Starter for ten .... Little Richard, Elvis, Eddie Cochran, Link Wray, James Brown, Frank Sinatra, Everly Brothers ......

[Richard Barrett]

That is a key point that I was suggesting (from a far more distant viewpoint than you!) might be the case.

There is always something interesting going on, I think. Present-day technology means it's accessible but also that it can't translate into "commercial success" for any but a handful of artists who are chosen for this treatment as a result of qualities other than musical ability. But history doesn't stand still of course. Many people think of some particular decade as a "golden age" for pop music, or any other kind of music, but at the time it's just "what's going on".

[french frank]

spot on about Buddy.

Really out of place on that list.

So far no one has clarified what was great about him other than to say he was. I remember most of his releases that were in the Top Ten during his lifetime i.e. the commercial successes. So maybe the best is never popular?

Music is about more than 'catchy tunes', so what had he got? He had a distinctive voice and was even younger than Mozart when he died (22). And here endeth my Wikipedia contribution.

I may also say here that unlike an elite group on the forum, I was disappointed in the 'Somewhat Delayed Song Thread', now having had 381 posts. After my early (no 6) enthusiastic posting of Arleen Auger singing Abendempfindung, I bowed out as clearly classical music was (albeit tacitly) not included. The enthusiasm for the popular music of the post war era is undoubted. I'm still unclear of where the musical quality lies.

[teamsaint]

FF, am on a train posting on phone, so the post about why Buddy was different class will have to wait, from me at least.
I was also a tad disappointed about the "Delayed Song "thread, and had hoped it woulddraw from a wider range of music, and from more forum members. But it wasn't to be.
Plenty of composer threads to be getting on with...

[Ian]

I'm still unclear of where the musical quality lies.

The quality lies in the perception of the listener. 'Quality' (aka value) is not an objectively measurable attribute. A works value is different for each individual listener. There is no reason why you should find value in pop music - but it obviously does have value for many people - just like any other kind of music.

[MrGongGong]

Ignoring the word 'desperately' - which makes its own assumption - once you turn this into merely a question of 'culture', why no questions about 'music'? When all music is 'just music' the less 'popular' starts to disappear - as we see daily in BBC coverage.

I wasn't suggesting that all music is 'just music'
Given that some of the other areas that have questions are often very niche and esoteric (the kind of questions about Greek linguistics in 10BC) there are never any questions about similar niche or esoteric musics?

[Beef Oven!]

So far no one has clarified what was great about him other than to say he was.

This goes someway

[Richard Barrett]

So far no one has clarified what was great about him other than to say he was.

But that's not really the subject of the discussion though, is it? Surely the point was not that Buddy Holly or whoever was "great", which as has been said is a matter of opinion, but the fact that his work is an example from the 1950s of transcending the "ephemeral" quality ascribed by some to pop music, to the extent that people are still listening to it half a century later, which might be seen as rendering pop music suitable as a subject for University Challenge questions.

[antongould]

Interestingly, or possibly not, and maybe even germanely - Donald Macleod, much revered in this parish, in his, IMVVHO, excellent week on Ravel seemed to ascribe to his R3 audience, not only a working knowledge of Led Zeppelin and Heigh Ho Silver Lining but also to the B side of the latter .... !!!!!

[Beef Oven!]

Interestingly, or possibly not, and maybe even germanely - Donald Macleod, much revered in this parish, in his, IMVVHO, excellent week on Ravel seemed to ascribe to his R3 audience, not only a working knowledge of Led Zeppelin and Heigh Ho Silver Lining but also to the B side of the latter .... !!!!!

I admit that, that Beck single was in my home back then! You can keep the A-side. The young female bassist (Gal Wilkenfeld) is only 19 in this!!!