Arts in the UK post-Brexit

[Beef Oven!]

Last month the EU cancelled its €70m pre-accession funding to Turkey:

"…the Commission's annual report on Turkey, published on 17 April 2018, concluded that “Turkey has been significantly moving away from the European Union, in particular in the areas of the rule of law and fundamental rights and through the weakening of effective checks and balances in the political system”.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/press-room/20180924IPR14223/no-improvement-in-respect-for-eu-values-meps-cut-support-for-turkey-by-EU70m

I feel Bryn was proabably correct.

I know all that, and in that knowledge, I'm saying that it's naive to believe that the process of joining has any probity about it. Wait and see.

[another one for Beefy's "I told you so" list]

[MrGongGong]

Good that you are not.

If Orban is a racist then lots of us who agree with him are, and I don't think that can be true.

You believe any old nonsense from drunken idiots you meet in pubs
so you have form

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=22765

[Bryn]

I know all that, and in that knowledge, I'm saying that it's naive to believe that the process of joining has any probity about it. Wait and see.

[another one for Beefy's "I told you so" list]

"The Council notes that Turkey has been moving further away from the European Union. Turkey's accession negotiations have therefore
effectively come to a standstill and no further chapters can be considered for opening or closing and no further work towards the modernisation of the EU-
Turkey Customs Union is foreseen."

Council of the European Union Brussels, 26 June 2018

[Beef Oven!]

You believe any old nonsense from drunken idiots you meet in pubs
so you have form

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/...x?NewsID=22765

The people that I meet in pubs are my family and friends. Can you not express your political views in a more grown up and less offensive way?

[Beef Oven!]

"The Council notes that Turkey has been moving further away from the European Union. Turkey's accession negotiations have therefore
effectively come to a standstill and no further chapters can be considered for opening or closing and no further work towards the modernisation of the EU-
Turkey Customs Union is foreseen."

Council of the European Union Brussels, 26 June 2018

The EU needs Turkey to become a member of the EU for geo-political and economic reasons. It envies and needs Turkey's human capital and its natural resources.

These noises the EU council makes are designed to poke Turkey in the ribs and get her to hurry up. Any other analysis is naive.

[Wait and see what happens in the end]

[Beef Oven!]

No

Stop championing racists then I might

I suspected that you are unable to express yourself in a grown up and less offensive way and I acknowledge how candid you are in your response.

I champion no-one. I agree with Orban, Farage and others that resist the perfidious EU.

Your accusations about racism do not bother me, not even in the slightest. I have been designated as a racist in here by another member in a post that our hosts have been very happy to leave stand. Richard Barrett has moved on to describe me as the 'resident leaver', or something similarly pejorative like that. I totally get the bit that if people don't agree with the dominant leftist perspective in this forum, you can expect to be subjected to guilt by association, identity politics and ridicule.

If you think that my thinking is racist, then ok I'm a racist - I'm perfectly happy to be one in your scheme of things.. You can hit me with that one all day long and I don't give a monkey's.

[Bryn]

The EU needs Turkey to become a member of the EU for geo-political and economic reasons. It envies and needs Turkey's human capital and its natural resources.

These noises the EU council makes are designed to poke Turkey in the ribs and get her to hurry up. Any other analysis is naive.

[Wait and see what happens in the end]

You expect us to wait around 5 billion years?

[french frank]

The EU needs Turkey to become a member of the EU for geo-political and economic reasons. It encies and needs Turkey's human capital and its natural resources.

These noises the EU council makes are designed to poke Turkey in the ribs and get her to hurry up.

There are 35 negotiating chapters which have to be settled, of which one has been completed - and that's taken 13 years. The EU has been clear that no special dispensation should be made for Turkey. In 8 years, Iceland has satisfied the conditions in 8 of them.

Having a low opinion of the EU in the first place makes it easier for you to believe that it will ditch its own values and founding principles.

[MrGongGong]

I suspected that you are unable to express yourself in a grown up and less offensive way and I acknowledge how candid you are in your response.

I champion no-one. I agree with Orban, Farage and others that resist the perfidious EU.

Your accusations about racism do not bother me, not even in the slightest.

If you think that my thinking is racist, then ok I'm a racis - I'm perfectly happy to be one in your scheme of things.. You can hit me with that one all day long and I don't give a monkey's.

I was merely agreeing with the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, who I would assume probably knows a little more about this than I do (but probably not you, as you seem to have access to special powers of understanding)

[french frank]

I agree with Orban, Farage and others that resist the perfidious EU.

Great Scott! I hadn't seen that one. It confirms what the psychologists say: the more you try to persuade people against their will, the more firm they become in their convictions. Looking back over your contributions, I can see no factual basis or rationality behind anything you assert to be the case. Perfidious EU. Wait and see. The EU needs Turkey. The benefits outweigh the discomforts. And so on.

[Beef Oven!]

There are 35 negotiating chapters which have to be settled, of which one has been completed - and that's taken 13 years. The EU has been clear that no special dispensation should be made for Turkey. In 8 years, Iceland has satisfied the conditions in 8 of them.

I know all that, and in that knowledge I say that Turkey will become a member. The EU needs its people and its resources. Please stop being naive about this.

Having a low opinion of the EU in the first place makes it easier for you to believe that it will ditch its own values and founding principles.

Did it ditch its own values and founding principle when it allowed Greece (et al) into the single currency despite its inability to meet the entry criteria?

[Beef Oven!]

Great Scott! I hadn't seen that one. It confirms what the psychologists say: the more you try to persuade people against their will, the more firm they become in their convictions. Looking back over your contributions, I can see no factual basis or rationality behind anything you assert to be the case. Perfidious EU. Wait and see. The EU needs Turkey. The benefits outweigh the discomforts. And so on.

I hold a mirror up to you on this. Look into it and see yourself. Unless you expect a 'logical positivism' in this. All of us marching towards your own way of thinking.

Move on?.




["confirms what psychologists say?" I think that's very rude of you]



.

[Bryn]

I hold a mirror up to you on this. Look into it and see yourself.

Moving on?

And thus you confirm frenchie's analysis. QED