Arts in the UK post-Brexit

[ahinton]

'will of the people'.

That's Shakespeare, innit?

[Bryn]

Boris Goodenough says that we should be ploughing it into the Neasden Holistic Sauna instead...

Never mind Goodenough, Beefy has just fallen foul of Godwin's Law. So that's his vain attempts at rational argument used up.

[Beef Oven!]

Never mind Goodenough, Beefy has just fallen foul of Godwin's Law. So that's his vain attempts at rational argument used up.

Godwin's law is meaningless after 100 posts

[richardfinegold]

(I appreciated the drollery)

You are aware, Fi, that Ferney is quoting an American Baseball Player, correct?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

You are aware, Fi, that Ferney is quoting an American Baseball Player, correct?

90% of posts on Brexit are mental. The other half is physical.

[french frank]

You are aware, Fi, that Ferney is quoting an American Baseball Player, correct?

Only now I've looked it up on Wikipedia, rf I had merely wanted to point out the obvious light-hearted nature of the comment, as a counterweight to the rather testy and humourless response that it had received.

[ahinton]

Man from Bratford: I joos can't troost m'wife wi't washing oop; every taame she goes t' dry summat, she drops and Brexit.

Perhaps Independence for Yorkshire will follow Scottish independence...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I had merely wanted to point out the obvious light-hearted nature of the comment, as a counterweight to the rather testy and humourless response that it had received.

And your appreciation was appreciated (though, to be fair, the "rather testy and humourless response" was itself removed by the onlie begetter).

[aeolium]

So everyone should be 'disadvantaged'? Does EU freedom of movement automatically ban other nations from migrating to EU countries? If the UK doesn't allow other migrants from outside the EU to come freely to the UK, isn't that a UK decision? EU freedom of movement does not simply allow people to move freely, it guarantees that such movement can be made with minimal regulations. Much like free movement between the nations of the UK.

I suggest that EU freedom of movement not only clearly disadvantages non-EU citizens who wish to migrate to European countries, but actually enables a climate of hostility to be created against the principle of immigration by those citizens (as we saw with the Windrush scandal and the deliberate climate of fear for Commonwealth citizens in particular created by the Home Office in this country). Not only here, but we have seen authoritarian nationalist Eastern European countries use the argument of defending a Christian Europe to refuse to take refugees fleeing persecution from outside Europe.

What do you want - everyone to be able to move freely to and from the UK or no one to be allowed to do so?

I would like everyone, EU and non-EU citizens alike, to be treated equally according to the rules agreed. It would be impractical to allow everyone to be able to move freely to and from the UK and absurd to have no migration.

A similar argument for the question of social integration: if some feel there are barriers (and the nature of the barriers need to be distinguished) to their enjoying the arts, no one should enjoy them? Or we all stay in our own little communities and enjoy them among ourselves?

I think you've completely misunderstood my point, which was about the relative narrowness of the social strata from which arts practitioners come, and especially the under-representation of people from the working classes and poorer communities. That, in turn, leads to a narrower reflection of the diversity of our society, and there is less awareness of the character and attitudes of regions and communities which tended (unlike the great majority of the artistic community) to support Brexit. It is in fact the opposite of what your last question suggests - that we should reflect and understand more of that diversity and those different attitudes.

[Beef Oven!]

Wrong way round.

I think you meant .....

"It would be absurd to allow everyone to be able to move freely to and from the UK and impractical to have no migration"

[MrGongGong]

I would like everyone, EU and non-EU citizens alike, to be treated equally according to the rules agreed.

The "rules agreed" are that those from counties in the EU (who pay a membership fee and pool resources and share responsibilities for a variety of things etc etc ) are able to travel and work in other countries who are also part of the same organisation. This doesn't exclude allowing those from other places to be able to move and work and earn etc but the gig is that you join the club and get the benefits of the reciprocal arrangements (healthcare, working rights etc etc)
Seems fair to me

What isn't fair is the way that the UK (for one) treats some people (usually ones with different coloured skin). BUT that's not really a problem with EU free movement.

But the original question is about ART
and for those who actually know about this (as opposed to those who just like to make stuff up !) the effects are clear and obvious

(still waiting for the list .... )

[Beef Oven!]

The "rules agreed" are that those from counties in the EU (who pay a membership fee and pool resources and share responsibilities for a variety of things etc etc ) are able to travel and work in other countries who are also part of the same organisation. This doesn't exclude allowing those from other places to be able to move and work and earn etc but the gig is that you join the club and get the benefits of the reciprocal arrangements (healthcare, working rights etc etc)
Seems fair to me

What isn't fair is the way that the UK (for one) treats some people (usually ones with different coloured skin). BUT that's not really a problem with EU free movement.

The UK being tied to EU immigration rules means that white people benefit disproportionately compared to non-white people.

Stick to things you understand and leave this subject alone.

[MrGongGong]

The UK being tied to EU immigration rules means that white people benefit disproportionately compared to non-white people.

Stick to things you understand and leave this subject alone.

That's amazing
just 2 sentences and you manage to be both ignorant and offensive
how on earth do you manage it ?

You must have a special gift

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Is it just me, or is anyone else reminded of Groundhog Day?

This is the one and only notice - keep the tone civil, or this Thread will be closed.

My decision - my "Delete" button.

[Cockney Sparrow]

Is this thread going to be "disappeared" as opposed to just locked when the heat of debate gets too hot to handle? (When one or two or more PM and complain - emoticon :swoon: :get smelling salts: )

This could become a mere memory -a thread that formerly existed.........

Edit - Just back from listening to our local orchestra (Shostakovich 1st Cello C and 5th Symphony). Posting my thoughts, for once rather prescient, given #134 posted seconds before mine. All that time invested in posting by contributors to the thread, to disappear in the click of a mouse !