Arts in the UK post-Brexit

[french frank]

Here's the Anglo-Italian definition according to Beef Oven!

"A manifesto a is public decalaration, usually in writing, of a political party's aims and objectives, containing a series of pledges and promises, should it get enough votes to form a government."

Not what the OED says. It is no more than a 'declaration'. Aims and objectives, I'll accept - pledges and promises they simply are not. For reasons given, they cannot be.

[Lat-Literal]

A mandate, as we understood it, was when your delegate is instructed to vote the way we have determined by majority vote, regardless of changes of viewpoint of circumstance. It was to be used only in the rarest of conditions, and we decided after discussing the principle not to use it unless absolutely necessary, virtually life-or-death, or on a matter of principle such as re-introducing fox hunting, as it would interfere with the delegate's freedom to make up his or her mind on the basis of arguments put to debate reflecting changed circumstances. The dividing line between principle and expediency assumes part of the preceding debate. At the end of the day the delegate would be answerable for their vote at the report-back stage.

Well, yes, that was a clear interpretation of a mandate.

Mandates, at most, are things of interpretation.

The best form of interpretation involves consistency in practical application.

Yours was mainly consistent.

[Beef Oven!]

Not what the OED says. It is no more than a 'declaration'. Aims and objectives, I'll accept - pledges and promises they simply are not. For reasons given, they cannot be.

That's vbecause it's the OED. You want the OE&ID

[french frank]

The parliamentary glossary:

A manifesto is a publication issued by a political party before a General Election. It contains the set of policies that the party stands for and would wish to implement if elected to govern.

https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/manifesto/

[Lat-Literal]

Arts in the UK post-Brexit

Has anyone any answers yet to:

(a) how many significant people involved in orchestras etc in the UK would be impacted by Brexit
(b) the nature/range of "non-commercial" music that would be affected and the numbers involved?

(Post 196)

[Richard Barrett]

Arts in the UK post-Brexit

Has anyone any answers yet to:

(a) how many significant people involved in orchestras etc in the UK would be impacted by Brexit
(b) the nature/range of "non-commercial" music that would be affected and the numbers involved?

(Post 196)

As I've said before, no: nobody has any answers to questions like this. People do however have concerns, which aren't being addressed in any meaningful way by the people who are supposedly responsible for policy.

[oddoneout]

Manifestos are a marketing exercise. At one time there might have been a fair degree of alignment between the words and the intentions, but for the past 20 or so years I have viewed them(if at all) as a means of determining what the Conservative and Labour parties are unlikely to, or do not intend to, do.
That voters apparently still believe them and make decisions based on them without reference to past performance, seems a triumph of hope over experience - to borrow from another context.

[Lat-Literal]

As I've said before, no: nobody has any answers to questions like this. People do however have concerns, which aren't being addressed in any meaningful way by the people who are supposedly responsible for policy.

I don't want to be facetious here RB and I genuinely appreciate other people's concerns, being a concerned sort of person. But isn't it being a bit hopeful to expect policy makers, who are rarely the most sensitive souls when placed in charge of a one size fits all policy instrument of bludgeon, to address something that nebulous? That is, when from experience, I know that they haven't been able to address many of my concerns on which I have spoon-fed them both in precis form and the finest last detail? Some of this is also about winning over the public. I'm strongly for music. I like to learn about it and am keen to know what is going on. I am ready to share such concerns. But currently I can't understand what they are.

[Beef Oven!]

The parliamentary glossary:

A manifesto is a publication issued by a political party before a General Election. It contains the set of policies that the party stands for and would wish to implement if elected to govern.

https://www.parliament.uk/site-infor...ary/manifesto/

In all seriousness, I accept everything that you've said about manifestos. But I must say that erroneously or otherwise, people have always taken manifestos as a pledge. No politician would get away, post-election, with an "ah, but we never said we shall do that, it was just a wish on our part, we never promised".

Clegg got walloped with that one, even though in the manifesto he obviously couldn't have been talking about a coalition scenario, which is a whole different ball-game.

[Richard Barrett]

I don't want to be facetious here RB and I genuinely appreciate other people's concerns, being a concerned sort of person. But isn't it being a bit hopeful to expect policy makers who are rarely the most sensitive souls when placed in charge of a one size fits all policy instrument of bludgeon to address something that nebulous?

I wasn't only talking about musicians having concerns. People in all walks of life have them, and the non-nebulous ones aren't being addressed either.

[Beef Oven!]

Arts in the UK post-Brexit

Has anyone any answers yet to:

(a) how many significant people involved in orchestras etc in the UK would be impacted by Brexit
(b) the nature/range of "non-commercial" music that would be affected and the numbers involved?

(Post 196)

Oh I'm sure many Brexit Diversity Impact Assessment Forms have been filled out in the public sector already, but how many in the music industry, I wouldn't know.

[ahinton]

Oh I'm sure many Brexit Diversity Impact Assessment Forms have been filled out in the public sector already, but how many in the music industry, I wouldn't know.

Largely blank sheets, a lot of them, I daresay...

[Lat-Literal]

I wasn't only talking about musicians having concerns. People in all walks of life have them, and the non-nebulous ones aren't being addressed either.

Can I start, then, by asking for a pen picture on "non-commercial music"?

[french frank]

In all seriousness, I accept everything that you've said about manifestos. But I must say that erroneously or otherwise, people have always taken manifestos as a pledge. No politician would get away, post-election, with an "ah, but we never said we shall do that, it was just a wish on our part, we never promised".

Clegg got walloped with that one, even though in the manifesto he obviously couldn't have been talking about a coalition scenario, which is a whole different ball-game.

()

One might add that the definition given also includes the phrase 'if elected to govern'. Just one more disadvantage for the junior partner in a coalition [Quoth the raven: 'Nevermore'].

And I quite accept that 'people' (you know - 'them') do think of manifestos as 'promises'; but the majority appear to me to be politically very unsophisticated.

[oddoneout]

Oh I'm sure many Brexit Diversity Impact Assessment Forms have been filled out in the public sector already, but how many in the music industry, I wouldn't know.

One - and music will be spelled 'Pop' on the title page.....