"That’s what I mean by genius."

[kernelbogey]

While I agree with much of what has been posted above - and having read no further than Calibs in the article under discussion - I do wonder whether this kind of thread does this Forum any favours. It's easy to forget that everything we post is available to anyone to read on t'internet.

Place the following words in an appropriate order: in, foot, mouth, putting .

[Richard Barrett]

It's easy to forget that everything we post is available to anyone to read on t'internet.

What exactly do you think is the problem with that?

[kernelbogey]

What exactly do you think is the problem with that?

The reputation of this forum - as I understand from remarks posted here passim - that we members are elitist, stick-in-the-mud, snobby etc etc. And that the views expressed here would reinforce those judgements in some who are not members.

[french frank]

The reputation of this forum - as I understand from remarks posted here passim - that we members are elitist, stick-in-the-mud, snobby etc etc. And that the views expressed here would reinforce those judgements in some who are not members.

For some reason - and this isn't intentional, I don't think - t'internet doesn't seem to pick up 'snippets' of discussions here. So people who look in will - in my view - already have their prejudices, of all varieties. And we shall confirm them, perhaps, but not inspire them.

My own view, as someone who studied Mozart's life in particular and his lifetime's letters, is that it is such a bit of atrocious misinformed populism that I'm surprised the Daily Telegraph (which does have cultural standards) should have found a place for it. At least she might have made it clearer that in essence she was talking about Amadeus the play rather than Mozart the 'genius'.

Albeit Amadeus is an admirable piece of the theatre: "C'est magnifique mais ce n'est pas la guerre".

[Richard Barrett]

The reputation of this forum - as I understand from remarks posted here passim - that we members are elitist, stick-in-the-mud, snobby etc etc. And that the views expressed here would reinforce those judgements in some who are not members.

But this is a dire piece of journalism that reads (as an academic friend of mine said) like an undergraduate essay written by a lazy and unfocused student the night before the deadline after a few drinks. If it's snobby and elitist of me to say that, so be it. I post here under my own name and I don't care who reads it.

[oddoneout]

I tend to the view that people in her position have, in some respects, a greater responsibility to ensure factual correctness than others writing about matters musical. Her 'audience reach' is large and includes those who will have no reason to question or reject what she writes - we can go through that article with our red pens, they can't.
It is a tad surprising that the Torygraph should publish it in that state - trying to be populist or reach a different audience is no excuse for abandoning accuracy.

[jean]

I'm surprised the Daily Telegraph (which does have cultural standards) should have found a place for it.

It is a tad surprising that the Torygraph should publish it in that state...

It appears to have been written by and for LT Live, to promote the cinema relay. So perhaps it's their fault rather than the Telegraph's.

.

[richardfinegold]

The reputation of this forum - as I understand from remarks posted here passim - that we members are elitist, stick-in-the-mud, snobby etc etc. And that the views expressed here would reinforce those judgements in some who are not members.

Speaking only for myself--I'm guilty on all counts. As a serial offender, I enjoy having one little corner of the world where I find people's ideas to be congenial. That's the beauty of the Internet--there is a space for everyone.

[french frank]

It appears to have been written by and for LT Live, to promote the cinema relay. So perhaps it's their fault more than the Telegraph's.

So it was an 'advertorial'? I didn't undestand what the reference to LT Live meant - but it's the relay of the film Amadeus, isn't it? Nothing to do with Mozart I was browsing in a bookshop a few years back and dipped into the text/screenplay and decided I wasn't interested in seeing the play or the film as I would just find them irritating.

It ties up with an opinion often expressed on the R3 Drama on 3 choices: that one of the least successful genres was the 'dramatisation' of episodes in the life of well-known people, living or remembered. These are taken as being biographical when they are just a much fiction as the average novel; that is, based on reality, but a reality that is in the end irrelevant to the finished work.

[jean]

So it was an 'advertorial'? I didn't undestand what the reference to LT Live meant - but it's the relay of the film Amadeus, isn't it?

Yes - if you click on 'Brought to you by National Theatre live' just below the headline in the link in the OP, it takes you straight to the NT Live site.

I have no idea how (or even if) it appeared in the print edition.

[LeMartinPecheur]

I was browsing in a bookshop a few years back and dipped into the text/screenplay and decided I wasn't interested in seeing the play or the film as I would just find them irritating.

It ties up with an opinion often expressed on the R3 Drama on 3 choices: that one of the least successful genres was the 'dramatisation' of episodes in the life of well-known people, living or remembered. These are taken as being biographical when they are just a much fiction as the average novel; that is, based on reality, but a reality that is in the end irrelevant to the finished work.

I had the pleasure of hearing Amadeus donkey's ago on R3, probably when it was pretty new on the stage. Fortunately I was already reasonably able to distinguish between facts and what Shaffer had made up or grossly exaggerated.

It seemed totally clear that it wasn't really 'about' Mozart. The focus is surely on Salieri: the very good composer and good man who has to acknowledge that Mozart is a genius. But why has God handed out total and undisputable musical genius to a foul-mouthed, puerile, immoral empty-head when S himself has always devotedly worshipped and served Him??

In the play, which in these terms is brilliant IMV, WAM is just a cypher. It is a great pity that any film about a famous historical character is seen by so many as Gospel Truth.

PS One valuable idea in the article. Presumably 'Mozart for Intelligent Babies' has now run its course, for the somewhat trivial reason that science has disproved it. So maybe Naxos should switch to 'Mozart for Hell-Raisers'?

[ahinton]

But this is a dire piece of journalism that reads (as an academic friend of mine said) like an undergraduate essay written by a lazy and unfocused student the night before the deadline after a few drinks.

Enough to have said student ejected from university, I'd say.

If it's snobby and elitist of me to say that, so be it. I post here under my own name and I don't care who reads it.

Same here on all counts.

What the DT thinks it's doing - and for whom - in publishing this piece of tat I have less than no idea.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It seemed totally clear that it wasn't really 'about' Mozart. The focus is surely on Salieri: the very good composer and good man who has to acknowledge that Mozart is a genius. But why has God handed out total and undisputable musical genius to a foul-mouthed, puerile, immoral empty-head when S himself has always devotedly worshipped and served Him??

In the play, which in these terms is brilliant IMV, WAM is just a cypher. It is just a great pity that any film about a famous historical character is seen by so many as The Truth.

Another of Shaffer's portraits of the respected professional being brought low by encountering phenomena far greater than his experience has led him to become accustomed to. (Equus is another: the individual's confrontation with his own self-awareness as a mediocrity.)


And there is a big difference between the play and the film scripts, wonderful as the latter was to experience in the cinema.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Enough to have said student ejected from university, I'd say.

I'd've had qualms letting her in! A* GCSE / Grade B "A/S"-level at best (and with a lot of red pen markings).

[Richard Barrett]

Yes, I don't think it does Peter Shaffer justice as a playwright to dismiss Amadeus as a mere dramatisation of the life of a historical celebrity. Having said that I have to admit to never (yet) having seen either the play or the film, but I think Equus is a very considerable piece of work.

Whatever the ins and outs of how the article under discussion found its way into the Torygraph, it's still rubbish.