Superstition? Pascal's wager and the Precautionary Principle

[Dave2002]

I found this about first footing – which might be of interest to some tonight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-foot

One question is – “should one do it – or not?”

Following a similar argument by Pascal – five minutes or so of “precaution” before midnight might avoid a whole year of problems, and again by the Precautionary Principle - “can you afford not to?”

So – how superstitious are we all – really?

Rushes off to hide behind a copy of the (Scottish) Daily Mail!

[french frank]

I was attracted by the reference to Pascal's Wager - but I never really found that a convincing argument, anyway. I'm not superstitious enough to bother too much. I suppose I could first-foot my neighbours opposite and then ask if they would first-foot me back. Does that work? I'll just be trying to get to sleep through all the fireworks when they start going off.

[vinteuil]

I was attracted by the reference to Pascal's Wager - but I never really found that a convincing argument, anyway.

... yes, Pascal's wager I always felt to be one of the less interesting aspects of his work. If there were to be a divinity who operated along those lines - one who wd only accept me for eternity if I 'played the game' of belief in the way Pascal illustrates - then I don't think I wd wish to be associated with such a deity nor any eternity held out on offer.

I don't want eternity anyway; loathe the idea of an afterlife.

[Dave2002]

I was attracted by the reference to Pascal's Wager - but I never really found that a convincing argument, anyway. I'm not superstitious enough to bother too much. I suppose I could first-foot my neighbours opposite and then ask if they would first-foot me back. Does that work? I'll just be trying to get to sleep through all the fireworks when they start going off.

I think it might depend on whether you have fair hair, and apparently males are preferred according to the linked article. For some very curious (non) reasons, the effects seem to vary according to location.

[johncorrigan]

I think it might depend on whether you have fair hair, and apparently males are preferred according to the linked article. For some very curious (non) reasons, the effects seem to vary according to location.

In Dundee there's folks trying to revive the dressed Herring as a first foot gift.

https://www.scotsmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2014/12/herring.jpg

Happy Hogmany and a great 2017 to all!

[Don Basilio]

I came across Pasal’s wager as a young man and I found it a tremendous help. The OP seems to have completely missed the point. For me it was nothing to do with eternity, it was about life now. How could I know that love, beauty, truth, value in life or compassion for other humans were anything other than a chemical delusion thrown up by the evolutionary process? How could I know life was worth living? It was impossible to prove. Pascal saved me by pointing out that it is impossible to prove value in life either way, all we can do is act AS IF life is worth living and then by God’s grace you will come to see that it is.

[vinteuil]

I came across Pasal’s wager as a young man and I found it a tremendous help. The OP seems to have completely missed the point. For me it was nothing to do with eternity, it was about life now. How could I know that love, beauty, truth, value in life or compassion for other humans were anything other than a chemical delusion thrown up by the evolutionary process? How could I know life was worth living? It was impossible to prove. Pascal saved me by pointing out that it is impossible to prove value in life either way, all we can do is act AS IF life is worth living and then by God’s grace you will come to see that it is.

... thank you for that, don B - a thoughtful take. For myself I would put your final sentence slightly differently :

" Pascal saved me by pointing out that it is impossible to prove value in life either way, all we can do is act AS IF life is worth living and then ... you will come to see that it is."

[Dave2002]

... thank you for that, don B - a thoughtful take. For myself I would put your final sentence slightly differently :

" Pascal saved me by pointing out that it is impossible to prove value in life either way, all we can do is act AS IF life is worth living and then ... you will come to see that it is."

Oh dear - we are verging into religious territory. There is no proof that I can see based on Pascal's wager which "proves" that life is worth living - unless other assumptions are added to the mix. With or without any assumptions, if you think life is worth living, then just take that as an axiom, don't try to justify it.

Consideration of Pascal's wager may enable one to think at a higher (meta) level, which may help some.

I hope that not too many people adopt a different axiom, or choice, but obviously some do.

[jean]

Oh dear - we are verging into religious territory...

Once you've mentioned Pascal, you can hardly avoid it!

[P. G. Tipps]

p. g. tipps

... I don't want eternity anyway; loathe the idea of an afterlife.

Ah but you post with the limitations of being human, y'see, with our tiny minescule little brains.

Presumably that won't be the case in an afterlife?

I certainly hope so!

[Don Basilio]

Oh dear - we are verging into religious territory. There is no proof that I can see based on Pascal's wager which "proves" that life is worth living - unless other assumptions are added to the mix. With or without any assumptions, if you think life is worth living, then just take that as an axiom, don't try to justify it..

I said that Pascal frees us from running round in circles following unconvincing proofs. The point is you can't proof anything outside mathematics, you just have to have faith. And that there is value and love and the rest in life fro Pascal and me is summed up in belief in God.

[vinteuil]

Ah but you post with the limitations of being human, y'see, with our tiny minescule little brains.

Presumably that won't be the case in an afterlife?

I certainly hope so!

... the problem is that any "afterlife" me would not be Me -

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/

[vinteuil]

... that there is value and love and the rest in life for Pascal and me is summed up in belief in God.

... whereas for me, that there is value and love and the rest in life is just a given, flowing from who we are as (among other things) pattern-seeking and meaning-seeking animals, evolved ineluctably from the primordial ooze. No need for God here. But for them as find a God helpful in their seeking for pattern and meaning - well, that's lovely.

[Frances_iom]

Ah but you post with the limitations of being human, y'see, with our tiny minescule little brains.

Presumably that won't be the case in an afterlife?

I certainly hope so!

maybe you would be so kind as to report back when you get there and remove any doubts.

[Dave2002]

Maybe I should duck out now. Faith? God? Concepts meaning what?