The Prince and the Composer (Parry)

[ahinton]

Hardly second-hand, as most of his work predates Elgar's major compositions. Possibly second-hand Brahms though.

I know, of course, that it wasn't actually "second-hand"; I merely suggested that, to me, some of it just happens to feel abit like like that! Second-hand Brahms, yes - I'd go along with that, although you'd hardly ever mistake the one for the other and, after all, Parry wasn't the only English composer of that era who sought to look towards Germany and Austria in the course of trying to up the ante in British composition.

[BBMmk2]

I viewed this on iplayer last night. I thought that HRH was quite a good presenter. May Prof Dibble could have had a more direct input and had a more prominent role but otherwisae verry good tro watch. I think it wasa very good to hear the Songs of Farewell and that Magnificat.

[EdgeleyRob]

They did spend some time on the 5th Symphony, editing beteween snippets of a rehearsal (with background gossip) and a concert-hall performance. I was personally grateful that a chunk of the programme was dedicated to this. Googling for a CD of Parry's 5th, I could only find a box set with Boult conducting costing over £70. Can anyone recommend a single (cheaper) CD? I don't do downloads BTW.

Pity you don't do downloads

http://www.play.com/Music/MP3-Download-Album/4-/5777114/Parry-H-Symphonies/Product.html?searchtype=downloadall&searchsource=0

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Pity you don't do downloads

http://www.play.com/Music/MP3-Downlo...searchsource=0

That is a real bargain, thought I too avoid downloads, which are often an excuse by recording companies not to bother giving you anything concrete, including a storage medium and information. I'm not a Luddite, but I don't like to be fobbed off either.

[moeranbiogman]

Has anyone noticed the similarity of 'Dolly 2' from the Shulbrede Tunes to 'Vera's theme' in the first movement of Elgar's 3rd Symphony?

[Serial_Apologist]

Caliban,

I will of course suspend judgement when I watch, as actually I'm all in favour of having an open mind,as long as our brains don't fall out of the bottom.Parry is a safe choice for the prince, because on public matters he is under so much restraint. When he does go out on a limb, on architecture for example, he gets a barrage of criticism which is often justified.
Having a monarchy is a form of mental cruelty to all the royals, some deal with it better than others.

Very insightful, FF! Come the revolution, I couldn't imagine a more appropriate part of "re-education" of the royals than to include having Prince Charles present a documentary on Hanns Eisler!

PC (examining the brief for the programme): "I say, good luck to that House Committee against Un-American Activities, say I! Was Ike involved in any of that? Could have done with something like that here over all that mess with the coal mines! My goodness me: Charlie Chaplain putting his signature to that petition to stop him getting deported. Wasn't aware Chaplin was a commie! German, was he, this Eisler fellow?"

[french frank]

Is it being hung on the wedding peg?

Parry père's great grandson who appeared briefly in the film to comment apparently died last July so I doubt the wedding was anything to do with the original enterprise. HRH adds curiosity value for potential viewers and a different presenter would have resulted in a different programme, maybe better, maybe worse (I can think of likely alternatives who wouldn't have added much).

Too much to expect a substantial amount of uninterrupted music but the focus on the man was enlightening and obviously has aroused interest in the music too. (Actually, I thought the film caught an immensely human moment when HRH was admiring Thomas Parry's (what appeared to be rather fine) watercolours and he uttered a spontaneously dejected, 'Oh, well ...')

I wouldn't mind hearing DO Norris on Discovering Music now and again.

[Chris Newman]

As you say, FF, HRH was showing his human side when he realised that the amateur Thomas Parry had great talent and was jealous. His digs at the problems of aristocratic upbringing and complicated relationships spoke volumes too.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

just watched the programme on iPlayer ... made me want to listen to Parry's music and discover the other symphonies and the piano music .... reinforced the feeling that i too could stand quite a bit more of D O Norris [i recall he did an excellent BAL a year or so ago] ... i am a street kid from bomb site London, the upper classes act as an emetic for me usually but i found C Windsor tolerable if unnecessary .... [too much of the royals this month though]

... the disregard of Parry's work is intriguing, as if for fifty to a hundred years to advocate his music would lose one's standing in the circles of power, knowledge and taste and to decry it would establish or secure one's membership in such circles ... a pure prejudice unwarranted by the experience of his music

[Serial_Apologist]

Parry's music did I feel fit the bill for music for royal occasions; but there was that other side to him. However demure his orchestral music (imv) it was a revolt not without significance to have gone against his lower aristocratic father's wishes by taking up music, thereby denouncing his heritage, and of course the famous 'Jerusalem' was composed specifically for a rally for women's suffrage.

[hmvman]

Has anyone noticed the similarity of 'Dolly 2' from the Shulbrede Tunes to 'Vera's theme' in the first movement of Elgar's 3rd Symphony?

Yes, I knew that theme sounded familiar! I was also struck, as Anthony Payne was saying how Parry was influenced by Wagner, how much Payne himself physically resembled Wagner.

I enjoyed the film but wonder if HRH's contributions really added much to our knowledge of Parry. However, if HRH's involvement actually enabled the film to be made and brought this composer's work to wider attention then so much the better.

[Pabmusic]

... and of course the famous 'Jerusalem' was composed specifically for a rally for women's suffrage.

I'd just like to correct this, which is becoming quite widespread. Jerusalem was written for a fund-raising concert in 1916 for Fight for Right, the organisation founded by Frances Younghusband to lobby the government not to seek peace with Germany. It funded a large amount of anti-German propaganda. When Parry was asked to contribute to the concert, he was reluctant because he didn't care for the cause at all, but the concert's conductor, Walford Davies, and the Poet Laureate, Robert Bridges, began badgering him to set two verses from Milton by Blake. Parry gave in eventually ("Here's a tune - do what you like with it") and the song (so called - not a hymn at all) was a success. But Parry was very uneasy about Fight for Right, and withdrew his support. There was even concern he would withdraw the song entirely. That's when Millicent Garrett Fawcett suggested it become the Women Voters' Hymn and Parry readily agreed (his wife was a leading suffragette) and the copyright was assigned to them. In 1928 when the movement was wound up, Parry's executors re-assigned the copyright to the W.I., who had it till 1968.

You don't often get this story, do you?, but I think it's interesting to realise the degree of controversy that surrounded its origin. Incidentally, Parry made a fine orchestral version (the original was for unison chorus and organ) for a Suffrage Demonstration concert in 1918, but you don't hear it so often because of Elgar's orchestration for the 1922 Leeds Festival, which suits the large Albert Hall forces very well.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Incidentally, Parry made a fine orchestral version (the original was for unison chorus and organ) for a Suffrage Demonstration concert in 1918, but you don't hear it so often because of Elgar's orchestration for the 1922 Leeds Festival, which suits the large Albert Hall forces very well.

It's an adequate orchestration, but no more. It was used at the Proms until the late 60s. Compared with Elgar's version, it's rather dull, justifying the jibe about Parry's string players "sawing away". You can hear it on the Naxos "Last Night of the Proms" CD and it was on a BBC Music Magazine CD of a Sargent LNOTP.

[salymap]

Thank you pabmusic and welcome to the message boards. I found your first post very interesting.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Thank you pabmusic and welcome to the message boards. I found your first post very interesting.

It was indeed - sorry if I seemed a bit harsh and "picky" over one sentence. Wasn't there a BBC4 programme about Jerusalem and the Fight for Right movement some time ago?