Would YOU stand for the National Anthem?

[ahinton]

I would 'Like' that if we had a Like button here. Perhaps I'm too impatient to be a socialist.

I do think that one needs a fundamental belief as well as just patience.

[Dave2002]

There are such things as (at least) temporary 'lost causes' and therefore maybe time for some to 'move on'? Doing that does not necessarily mean any current 'lost cause' promoter has to ditch his/her views as things and time can and do change, of course.

Oddly Trump was a lost cause - until he wasn't!

You have a good point re timing though. Just possibly some people may be playing a waiting game - though I'm not holding my breath re some of the current issues. I rather agree with John Major that the clear will of the people wasn't really so clear, or at least the reasons for such "will".

[french frank]

I do think that one needs a fundamental belief as well as just patience.

In an ideal world, I would surely be a socialist: in principle I consider it a fine 'belief'. But a belief that that 'ideal world' will exist if one is patient and keeps the ideal alive is not the same. In the meantime is one content to 'be patient'? This is where I meant my patience lets me down!

[french frank]

As far as I'm aware no one is actually forcing anti-monarchists to stand for the NA

But no one suggested otherwise and the thread is about whteher people will or won't stand for it.

We are discussing it - otherwise we might just as well line up and say Yes or No. Or, It depends, sometimes I might, sometimes not.

[ahinton]

We are discussing it - otherwise we might just as well line up and say Yes or No. Or, It depends, sometimes I might, sometimes not.

Sure, but I think that it would be misleading to assume that everyone who wouldn't stand for it is an anti-monarchist and everyone who would is a monarchist! As I mentioned previously, the asking of the question implicitly presumes not only an answer but also reasons why and why not.

[french frank]

Sure, but I think that it would be misleading to assume that everyone who wouldn't stand for it is an anti-monarchist and everyone who would is a monarchist! As I mentioned previously, the asking of the question implicitly presumes not only an answer but also reasons why and why not.

I understand that people who stand may not particularly be monarchists because they haven't thought about it very much and are just standing because they always do.

Not sure about those 'who wouldn't stand'. But they may:

1) Disapprove of the Queen personally and think she has been a Bad Queen

2) Uphold Salic Law: stood for Good King George and will stand again for Good King Charles (or GK William)

3) Have an intense dislike of the NA and believe it should be changed to something else

4) Are feeling, at that moment, furious about something and want to draw attention to that fury (i.e. to husband, wife or friends there present)

5) Find it difficult to stand unaided No, I don't think that counts because it's not deliberate unwillingness

Is this what you meant?

[Ferretfancy]

I wish we had the World's best NationalAnthem, the Marseillaise of course!

[Alain Maréchal]

I wish we had the World's best NationalAnthem, the Marseillaise of course!

I think the words are rather bloodthirsty for these times, although you may some particular bloody standards and tyrannies in mind. Perhaps all NAs should have their words revised regularly to fit the current situation.

[MrGongGong]

I guess this one will go the way of all such like
but to reiterate

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Lots of people seem to be in support of the execrable kippers sadly

Maybe electing Eddie Hitler as leader was a bit of a blunder?

[ahinton]

I guess this one will go the way of all such like
but to reiterate

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence

Lots of people seem to be in support of the execrable kippers sadly

Maybe electing Eddie Hitler as leader was a bit of a blunder?

Yes, this risks going Frankly French any minute now (and by that I do not seek to refer to the expression that le Pen is mightier than le sword) UNLESS we get straight back to whether people would or would not stand for the National Anthem which is not a party political ditty as such...

By the way, kippers are execrable only when they're either past their fish-by date or badly cooked.

[Beef Oven!]

Yes, this risks going Frankly French any minute now (and by that I do not seek to refer to the expression that le Pen is mightier than le sword) UNLESS we get straight back to whether people would or would not stand for the National Anthem which is not a party political ditty as such...

By the way, kippers are execrable only when they're either past their fish-by date or badly cooked.

Yes, I’d stand for the national anthem. I view anything else as a futile form of protest (at best).

[MrGongGong]

Yes, this risks going Frankly French any minute now (and by that I do not seek to refer to the expression that le Pen is mightier than le sword) UNLESS we get straight back to whether people would or would not stand for the National Anthem which is not a party political ditty as such...

By the way, kippers are execrable only when they're either past their fish-by date or badly cooked.

Indeed
a half baked kipper is avoidable at all costs
As to standing for an anthem ?

On your feet kids

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01dmw9x

[P. G. Tipps]

#202

I simply do not recognise the country you seem to imagine is the UK ...

According to the last official world statistics by Pew in 2010 (the 'evidence' that the non-evidence promoters themselves always seem to demand!) those who identify themselves as 'Christian' in the UK is still at 64% whilst Muslims are at 5%. Of course that is expected to change in the coming years (no doubt already has) but Christian belief is still reckoned to be around 45% and Muslims at 11% by 2050 ... surely quite astonishing in a supposedly aggressively-secular, non-religious age?

Where is the actual evidence that the UK is now largely an 'atheist' country? That is certainly not supported by any surveys. You are perhaps confusing atheism with agnosticism, which is quite different. If so, one can hardly argue that there has indeed been a decline in religious belief in the western world in general, not just the UK, but looking back in history that is not unusual and is quite different from claiming that creeds of Faith have suddenly been replaced by creeds of Faithlessness! Furthermore, looking at a world view, it seems that Faith is increasing not least in officially atheist countries like China!

The same Pew survey puts those at claiming 'no religion' in the UK at 28% but surely a good bulk of them will probably be agnostic rather than paricularly atheist? So we come back to the central point I made about the 'will of the people'. If a significant majority of the people identify with a religion why should an avowedly Godless minority dictate to the majority that God should not be named in any national anthem? And as for supposed 'serfs' the people could dismiss the monarch anytime they wish if the majority wish were there!

Questions, questions for republicans and secularists who constantly preach to the majority that they are 'for the people' ...

[Beef Oven!]

Interesting points Scotty. I think I make the mistake of believing that few people identify with Christianity, these days. Last Tuesday, I was with a group of people and during the chatter one chap said, I’m not sure what the reason was, that he’s an agnostic. This prompted a general ‘fessing-up and most people were Christians. Out of about ten of us, it turns out that me and the agnostic, were the only people that didn’t identify with a religion. I was really surprised. Quite a motley crew, too. I was going to give my reasons why I felt that religion was a load of superstitious nonsense, but thought better of it.

[cloughie]

Interesting points Scotty. I think I make the mistake of believing that few people identify with Christianity, these days. Last Tuesday, I was with a group of people and during the chatter one chap said, I’m not sure what the reason was, that he’s an agnostic. This prompted a general ‘fessing-up and most people were Christians. Out of about ten of us, it turns out that me and the agnostic, were the only people that didn’t identify with a religion. I was really surprised. Quite a motley crew, too. I was going to give my reasons why I felt that religion was a load of superstitious nonsense, but thought better of it.

Beefy
In some ways I am as surprised as you with your findings, but in others I am not. Many people of my age do not attend any church or chapel and on the outside show no religious allegiances BUT grew up attending schools which had daily morning assembly, many attended Sunday school and learned Christian values which now are not matched with regular worship but shown in the way they relate to others. I know that personally also that school and chapel built an element of my musical development, singing and love of harmonies. So am I a Christian - yes, am I a regular church goer no. But I am delighted this year to be part of an ad hoc choir taking part in a Festival of Nine Lessons and Carols.
Cheers
Cloughie