Would YOU stand for the National Anthem?

[greenilex]

I think "Send her victorious" is a short way of praying "May God send that she be victorious".

But you know that already...

[MickyD]

I remember attending a charity event at St John's Smith Square many years ago, when Alan Hacker directed a large period orchestra. He began the proceedings with the National Anthem in an 18th century arrangement. Quite who arranged it I'm not sure...could it have been Arne? Was the tune around at that time? I recall finding it very charming.

[jean]

...The fait accompli that is the record length of the present one's reign rather renders the penultimate line redundant...

And it ain't over yet, and won't be if God has been paying attention to Byrd's O Lord, make thy servant Elizabeth our Queen:

O Lord, make thy servant Elizabeth our Queen to rejoice in thy strength:
give her her heart's desire, and deny not the request of her lips;
but prevent her with thine everlasting blessing,
and give her a long life, even for ever and ever. Amen.

[ahinton]

And it ain't over yet, and won't be if God has been paying attention to Byrd's O Lord, make thy servant Elizabeth our Queen:

O Lord, make thy servant Elizabeth our Queen to rejoice in thy strength:
give her her heart's desire, and deny not the request of her lips;
but prevent her with thine everlasting blessing,
and give her a long life, even for ever and ever. Amen.

Well, God certainly ought to have been paying attention when Byrd was at his exercise! But then this was surely never intended to be, nor did it ever become, a "National Anthem" as it's understood today, though...

[jean]

I would argue there's a difference between a nation proclaiming or reaffirming its national identity when that national identity has long been supressed or repressed by foreign occupation (e.g. Poland) and a nation proclaiming its past domination of a large part of the globe.

I thought you might argue that!

So in the case I cited, the correct protocol would be to sit for the British national Anthem, and rise to one's feet for the Welsh one?

[BBMmk2]

I went to a performance of Messiah, hmm 2 years ago or so, and stood up for The hallelujah chorus. It still happens! And at the Royal Albert Hall too!

[Richard Barrett]

I thought you might argue that!

... because "nationalism" isn't a single thing but has different connotations according to the nationality and its status, which explains the huge difference in political attitude between say the SNP and UKIP. The achievements that jingoistic patriots would say they're proud of in their country generally boil down to subjugating other peoples and extracting profits from them, whereas the other kind of nationalism derives from being at the receiving end of such "greatness". The problem is that cultural expressions of these things in the form of national anthems look pretty much the same no matter which side they're coming from, like an attempt on the part of those who claim to represent downtrodden nations to ape the triumphalism of their opposite numbers. So no Mae Hen Wlad fy Nhadau for me (although I do remember the words!).

[David-G]

I remember attending a charity event at St John's Smith Square many years ago, when Alan Hacker directed a large period orchestra. He began the proceedings with the National Anthem in an 18th century arrangement. Quite who arranged it I'm not sure...could it have been Arne? Was the tune around at that time? I recall finding it very charming.

The tune is believed to date from either the 17th or the 18th century. Apparently Arne did an arrangement for Drury Lane. That could have been what you heard.

[jean]

... because "nationalism" isn't a single thing but has different connotations according to the nationality and its status, which explains the huge difference in political attitude between say the SNP and UKIP....The problem is that cultural expressions of these things in the form of national anthems look pretty much the same no matter which side they're coming from...

And that would have been my answer to S-A's argument!

[Dave2002]

At least the idea that there is/ever was - a verse which contain specifically anti-Scottish sentiments seems to have been debunked - http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/precious/anthem1

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I remember attending a charity event at St John's Smith Square many years ago, when Alan Hacker directed a large period orchestra. He began the proceedings with the National Anthem in an 18th century arrangement. Quite who arranged it I'm not sure...could it have been Arne? Was the tune around at that time? I recall finding it very charming.

Arne's arrangement (with a slightly different tune) featured in Part One of Suzy Klein's (yes - I know) Music, Mischief, and Morals in 18th Century Britain - it was written as a song of defiance against the Jacobite rebellion in 1745 (approx 51mins 30secs in):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04097wg/rule-britannia-music-mischief-and-morals-in-the-18th-century-episode-1

[Serial_Apologist]

I thought you might argue that!

So in the case I cited, the correct protocol would be to sit for the British national Anthem, and rise to one's feet for the Welsh one?

Well I might if the latter were to be re-titled "Land of my Mothers".

[ahinton]

Well I might if the latter were to be re-titled "Land of my Mothers".

But in Welsh, though, surely, apologist serial? - i.e. Hen Wlad Fy Mamau? Perhaps Richard might have a thought or three on that...

[Bryn]

Well I might if the latter were to be re-titled "Land of my Mothers".

So what was wrong with Rebecca? Most were fathers. ?

[ardcarp]

As far as I can see, no-one has posted up all the available verses:



God save our gracious Queen,

Long live our noble Queen,

God save the Queen!

Send her victorious,

Happy and glorious,

Long to reign over us;

God save the Queen!

***

O Lord our God arise,

Scatter her enemies

And make them fall;

Confound their politics,

Frustrate their knavish tricks,

On Thee our hopes we fix,

God save us all!

***

Thy choicest gifts in store

On her be pleased to pour;

Long may she reign;

May she defend our laws,

And ever give us cause

To sing with heart and voice,

God save the Queen!

***

Not in this land alone,

But be God’s mercies known,

From shore to shore!

Lord make the nations see,

That men should brothers be,

And form one family,

The wide world over.

***

From every latent foe,

From the assassins blow,

God save the Queen!

O’er her thine arm extend,

For Britain’s sake defend,

Our mother, prince, and friend,

God save the Queen!

***

Lord grant that Marshal Wade

May by thy mighty aid

Victory bring.

May he sedition hush,

And like a torrent rush,

Rebellious Scots to crush.

God save the King!


Setting PC aside, some verses seem to be at odds with others!