Would YOU stand for the National Anthem?

[Petrushka]

I've been struggling to find on youTube that clip of Alf Garnett in the film version of Till Death... where he is sitting in his tin bath in the living room and the National Anthem comes on the radio. Of course, Alf promptly stands up to see a photo of the King and Queen on the wall and struggles to hide his embarrassment. Hilarious!

[ahinton]

What I have long since failed to understand is why so many countries have these things in the first place.

Many years ago, when running an ensemble which shall reamin nameless, I took them to play at an event to which it had been invited to perform on the evening before that year's Wimbledon season commenced. One condition of the gig was that the ensemble had to play the national anthems of at least 40 countries. Accordingly, I purchased a book of these from Oxford University Press in order to make this possible (which of us here would know all of these without the music?). I still remember to this day how odd this all seemed in practice. At least there was some amusement to be had from the experience, for not only were the ensemble's contributions greatly appreciated, it had been pi**ing down with rain for some days before this event and, whilst the Steinway Model D hired in for the ensemble's use had wisely been placed upon a large board with a view to protect it from the risk of damage, the weight of the instrument and the waterlogged surface upon which its supporting board had been placed were such that the entire thing gradually sank into the ground so that the pianist ended up looking up to his colleagues from a position in which he would never otherwise have found himself.

The phrase "national anathema" srpings to mind...

[Conchis]

Surely it is a matter of respect and politeness. The words are immaterial. I can think of several nations whose policies past and present I detest, but I would never insult them in public by not standing for their anthem.

I think a policy of just not standing for ANY national anthem, regardless of your opinion of the country, probably say it all.

[Serial_Apologist]

Part of my reasoning for not standing is that i don't understand the concept of 'patriotism': how can you be 'proud' of the country you just happened to be born in when you had no choice in the matter?

I'm not a republican, either.

Do you mean to say you would only agree to stand for the National Anthem were you to have been asked to choose which country you had been born into???

[Conchis]

Do you mean to say you would only agree to stand for the National Anthem were you to have been asked to choose which country you had been born into???

No.

[Serial_Apologist]

What I have long since failed to understand is why so many countries have these things in the first place.

I know! - in order that Karlheinz Stockhausen could eventually composer his "Hymnen" in 1966.

For me this question is akin to the "Do you sing the hymns in church weddings and funerals to which you (as a non-believer) have been invited?" To which my answer is usually "yes" - but not for standing to the NA - and I am able to account for my sincerity transgression by saying that I treat the words as sound poems. Words are only signifiers, after all. And in any case I don't want to look even more of a dummy than I usually do at formal occasions.

[Barbirollians]

It used to annoy me no end at the Sheffield concerts in the 1980s but as I recall it was a Halle thing and the BBPO , CBSO and RLPO did not go in for it .

[Dave2002]

It used to annoy me no end at the Sheffield concerts in the 1980s but as I recall it was a Halle thing and the BBPO , CBSO and RLPO did not go in for it .

The RLPO did do the national anthem at the start of concerts, but possibly abandoned the practice earlier than some other orchestras. In one period I made a point of not standing, and similarly at the end of cinema showings. Now I've perhaps mellowed a bit. Although I'm not a royalist, I do admire the Queen and her husband, and the thought of having a President instead does not appeal.

[Conchis]

At the end of the official release of Bob Dylan's legendary 'Judas!' concert at the Manchester Free Trade Hall, after all the sound and fury is over and Dylan and his band have left the stage, you can hear the beginning of the N.A. played over the P.A. system. If ever the word 'anomalous' was appropriate.....

[Mary Chambers]

Part of my reasoning for not standing is that i don't understand the concept of 'patriotism': how can you be 'proud' of the country you just happened to be born in when you had no choice in the matter?

I'm not a republican, either.

I agree with this. I am not proud of something that is just a matter of chance.

I do tend to stand, reluctantly, for the National Anthem in public, though it would never occur to me to do so at home. I just do it to be polite, but I think it's quite silly.

[MrGongGong]

Surely it is a matter of respect and politeness. The words are immaterial. I can think of several nations whose policies past and present I detest, but I would never insult them in public by not standing for their anthem.

There's a big difference IMV between ones own country and being gratuitously insulting to another.
Though I would turn my back on several that I can think of who hide behind "respect and politeness"

[ahinton]

I know! - in order that Karlheinz Stockhausen could eventually composer his "Hymnen" in 1966.

!!! Says it all in the most effective way possible, methinks!

For me this question is akin to the "Do you sing the hymns in church weddings and funerals to which you (as a non-believer) have been invited?" To which my answer is usually "yes" - but not for standing to the NA - and I am able to account for my sincerity transgression by saying that I treat the words as sound poems. Words are only signifiers, after all. And in any case I don't want to look even more of a dummy than I usually do at formal occasions.[/QUOTE]
I'm sure that you do no such thing, but I empathise with the rest of what you write here.

Of course it's perhaps worth pointing out that standing for the National Anthem and actually singing it are two different things, as Messrs Corbyn and Redwood (hardly two peas from the same political pod) know well, albeit to their cost.

Many years ago, Adrian Boult conducted the première of one of the largest and most ambitious piano concertos ever written by an English composer. The soloist on that occasion was the composer himself and he was not exactly known as a pillar of "the establishment"; indeed, he had by that time been a member of the British Communist Party for several years. His concerto was evidently very well received, but the applause had barely begun when Boult rounded on the orcestra and had them play the National Anthem, presumably in an effort to drown it out. Had I been there, I would have stood for that had I been sufficiently close to the podium, albeit only then to run towards the errant conductor and wrench the baton from his hand and silence the players. As I cannot immediately call to mind another occasion on which the National Anthem was used as a silencing weapon, perhaps history was made then. The composer/pianist was, of course, Alan Bush.

[visualnickmos]

No, I would NOT.

[jean]

The RLPO did do the national anthem at the start of concerts, but possibly abandoned the practice earlier than some other orchestras...

Since Vasily's arrival, they've resumed the practice - but only for the first concert of the season, I think. He must like it.

The Liverpool Welsh Choral Union sing the English and Welsh National Anthems, though I'm not sure they do it at every concert, and I'm even less sure they always did.

I think I've mentioned here before that my first act of teenage rebellion was to remain sitting when my parents leapt to their feet every time GSTQ was played on the radio. My thought about it changed a bit after I lived in Poland and saw how much their Anthem meant to the Poles, and how churlish the odd seated tourist looked at concerts (especially as they were probably German). After that, I couldn't see much reason for distinguishing between one National Anthem and another, and I just do what everyone round me is doing.

.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The Halle rendition of the National Anthem under Barbirolli was a stunning experience, with JB conducting as he faced the audience. Even if I were a rampant republican, I would have stood up for this.