Would YOU stand for the National Anthem?

[ahinton]

All recent UK public opinion polls have consistently shown not just a large majority but an overwhelming one (around 80%) in favour of retaining the monarchy.

That is why you never hear British republicans demanding a referendum on the issue. They may be wrong-headed but they are not particularly thick-headed as well...

As MrGG rightly points out, opinion polls are notoriously unreliable as indicators of anything, as we recently discovered to what might turn out to be our great cost; however, I do not think that any alleged percentage favouring the retention of the UK monarchy is necessarily an accurate indicator or reflection of the proportion of people who might stand for the National Anthem - and this thread is, after all, about the latter, not the former. For example, not everyone who might favour retaining the UK monarchy would of necessity favour either the words or the "melody" of the National Anthem and I'm sure that some would indeed favour its replacement with something more acceptably inclusive than the present one that focuses on that monarchy rather than the nation; the monarchy supposedly serves the nation, not the other way around.

[Richard Barrett]

'respect' would mean being genuinely respectful of the customs and practice of the people surrounding me at that moment

So they wouldn't have to do anything to deserve your respect, just be surrounding you?

As for referendums, PGT, anyone who still thinks referendums are generally a good idea put your hands up. Anyone? Thought not. Sooner or later the royal family and all its appurtenances will be swept away, or it might even end up sweeping itself away. I can wait. They're normally just a minor irritation after all. But stand up for them? or anyone? (except someone who needed my chair more than me)

[french frank]

Don't disagree with that, ferney: as I said, in this country we are free to choose - and should be able to do so without fear of recrimination - wherever it might come from. To be forced to do so by law, or to have howling masses after you if you don't - whatever kind of society you live in - would be the mark of an undemocratic society.

And of course, that doesn't stop at national anthems: it applies to whatever you're forced to kowtow to (metaphorically speaking ). In the end, though, the symbolism of 'respect' means what you intend it to mean, whether you have your hand on your heart, whether you sing the words with apparent enthusiasm, it doesn't change what you think and feel. That's why it doesn't matter whether you stand or don't: you're sending out a message, but it isn't always immediately clear to other people what your message is.

I can appreciate "politeness": if I were ever in the position of being rescued from a car breakdown on a Christmas day by a family who took me into their home, fed and sheltered me, and they wanted to watch the Queen's Speech and they all stood for the National Anthem, I would join them in gratitude and appreciation of their hospitality. But I don't think that this is the same thing as the "respect" that seems to be demanded/expected of me on public occasions - for the reasons I gave in #31, I have no real respect for the sentiments of a National Anthem. I would not dream of attempting to force others to remain seated, and, as one of the "people surrounding" frenchie I demand/expect the same courtesy/politeness/respect paid to my custom and practice that I pay to theirs.

And, of course, people do afford me this - I have never received criticism for remaining seated.

[french frank]

So they wouldn't have to do anything to deserve your respect, just be surrounding you?

Yep. I would assume that generally speaking I knew nothing about them. Like Wikipedia: always assume good faith. Or 'believe the best of people if you have no reason to do anything else'.

[vinteuil]

.

... I may think that all religions are silly - but if I find myself at a Christian service I'll try to do the right thing - standing, sitting, kneeling, genuflecting - at the right moments - in the same way I take my shoes off when visiting mosques and temples, and put on head coverings at synagogues. It's that kind of 'respect' which wd nudge me to stand during a national anthem if that's what the people around seem to be doing. I may find it all absurd, but it seems the decent thing to do.

[ahinton]

Sooner or later the royal family and all its appurtenances will be swept away, or it might even end up sweeping itself away. I can wait.

Indeed it might, but then again it might not; it does seem to have been an awful long time coming if it's going to do so. In the meantime, the total cost of renovating Buck House and the Houses of Parliament comes to - what - around three quarters of a billion pounds + unforeseen contingency additions, so £1bn+?...

[Sir Velo]

Very interesting. I had to check that Iceland has no king or queen - I mistakenly thought it was still linked to Denmark, albeit loosely.

Very interesting link that E.I.U one.

I think you may be thinking of Greenland. Icelanders, not without reason, might be a bit annoyed if they thought they were considered to be in thrall to the Danes.

[gradus]

Re the thread Q.- yes.

[Richard Barrett]

Yep. I would assume that generally speaking I knew nothing about them.

Even if you did know something about them?

[ahinton]

Even if you did know something about them?

Were FF's assumption here to be an honest one, how could she at the same time know something about them? That doesn't seem to make sense (to me, at least).

[french frank]

Even if you did know something about them?

Erm It would depend what I knew about them - if in some way I could know something about everyone in an audience among whom I found myself.

If I felt I was in the midst of some sort of hostile environment, or among people with whom I fundamentally disagreed, I wouldn't make that an occasion to make a personal statement …

[P. G. Tipps]

So they wouldn't have to do anything to deserve your respect, just be surrounding you?

As for referendums, PGT, anyone who still thinks referendums are generally a good idea put your hands up. Anyone? Thought not. Sooner or later the royal family and all its appurtenances will be swept away, or it might even end up sweeping itself away. I can wait. They're normally just a minor irritation after all. But stand up for them? or anyone? (except someone who needed my chair more than me)

On the contrary maybe I was the first on this Forum (as unpopular a notion as undoubtedly it was at the time!) to come out against the very idea of the last disastrous UK referendum as soon as it was called by what I described as 'the worst PM in my lifetime'. Like republicans on the issue of the monarchy I'm somewhat wary of delegating such important decision-making to the Great Unwashed . Professionals should decide professional matters not complete amateurs.

I am in favour of genuine liberalism, not the pseudo-Marxist concept that passes for it today. People who stand to attention for anthems that's fine, others who prefer to sit and sulk that's fine by me as well.

As others have said it's really all about a basic respect and tolerance for the views of others whatever one's own strongly-held opinions.

However, why should a relatively small rump of republicans dictate to the overwhelming majority of the British people what sort of political system should hold sway in their country?

That's the very antithesis of any sort of true 'democracy', surely.

[Richard Barrett]

If I felt I was in the midst of some sort of hostile environment, or among people with whom I fundamentally disagreed, I wouldn't make that an occasion to make a personal statement …

"Personal statements" of that kind, however, aren't necessarily intended to assuage some purely personal need - they might also be intended to communicate something, to suggest that others think about the issue, to show solidarity with those who might agree but perhaps aren't (yet) so forthright about expressing their opinion. Protesting is not just about saying no.

PGT, your self-contradiction is showing.

[Dave2002]

How far should "disrepect" go? Why is national identity seemingly so important?

Activist vs Church pastor: Should people be punished for burning US flag?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-38174361

[MrGongGong]

That is not a National Anthem, surely, but a Factional one.

I guess you have never been to Sleaford ?