151 Conductors Can't Be Wrong

[Tony Halstead]

Not readers, ag; they asked 151 conductors to name their top three (greatest, whatever that means!), and then added up the totals.
Here's the list from the top down: this time the number is the number of the symphony ().

Beethoven 3
Beethoven 9
Mozart 41
Mahler 9
Mahler 2
Brahms 4
Berlioz Fantastique
Brahms 1
Tchaikovsky 6
Mahler 3
Beethoven 5
Brahms 3
Bruckner 8
Sibelius 7
Mozart 40
Beethoven 7
Shostakovich 5
Brahms 2
Beethoven 6
Bruckner 7

For me, part of the surprise was that all the Brahms symphonies featured.

(I don't want to hijack this thread, so perhaps if discussion is to ensue we need to start a new one?)

It's quite a shock to see:
Mahler 6 not featured; no Haydn; no Nielsen; no Vaughan Williams; only one Sibelius.

[antongould]

151 Conductors Can't Be Wrong

As suggested by Pulcinella ..... A thread to discuss this ....
Tony has already recorded his surprise on the Haydn 92 thread ....

"BBC MM asked 151 conductors to name their top three (greatest, whatever that means!), and then added up the totals.
Here's the list from the top down: this time the number is the number of the symphony ().

Beethoven 3
Beethoven 9
Mozart 41
Mahler 9
Mahler 2
Brahms 4
Berlioz Fantastique
Brahms 1
Tchaikovsky 6
Mahler 3
Beethoven 5
Brahms 3
Bruckner 8
Sibelius 7
Mozart 40
Beethoven 7
Shostakovich 5
Brahms 2
Beethoven 6
Bruckner 7

For me, part of the surprise was that all the Brahms symphonies featured.

(I don't want to hijack this thread, so perhaps if discussion is to ensue we need to start a new one?)"

[Nick Armstrong]

It's quite a shock to see:
Mahler 6 not featured; ... only one Sibelius.

Yes it was the lack of Mahler 6 which first struck me... and the paucity of Sibelius...

Not surprised by the strong showing by Brahms though, anton...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

It's quite a shock to see:
Mahler 6 not featured; no Haydn; no Nielsen; no Vaughan Williams; only one Sibelius.

I think that if I were asked to name just three works (as the remit requested) I don't think that RVW, Nielsen ... or even Sibelius would appear on my list - nor even Haydn. In fact, so horrified would I realize the omissions were, that I'd decline to take part at all.

Were the names of the conductors given, does anyone know? (I'd be interested to see if any of the conductors I most admire were foolish enough to contribute.)

[zola]

Were the names of the conductors given, does anyone know? (I'd be interested to see if any of the conductors I most admire were foolish enough to contribute.)

The conductors were listed, together with their choices. Obviously I'm not going to copy out 151 names. Easier to state which prominent conductors were NOT included, of which I noted Gergiev, Dudamel and Norrington. More or less anyone else you might expect was there. Oh, no Thielemann or Kirill Petrenko either ( Vasily is there )

[Richard Barrett]

Looks to me like a list of great symphonies that could usefully be dropped from the orchestral repertoire for a few years so that some more interesting programming could be done.

The thing is: a list like this is not what music is about. Heaven save us from programming that's the result of this kind of "triangulation". Presumably the most interesting conductors among the 151 would have made one, two or even three choices that don't appear on the final list. Only British conductors would choose RVW. and only Danish conductors Nielsen, as having written at least one of the "greatest symphonies of all time". Haydn's symphonies are (happily) no longer exclusively played by "modern" orchestras, and most conductors thereof only know about 15% of them anyway. And so on.

[Bryn]

... Were the names of the conductors given, does anyone know? (I'd be interested to see if any of the conductors I most admire were foolish enough to contribute.)

All conductors were named, along with their selections. There is also a secton devoted to some of the more "unusual" choices:

Lyatoshynsky: Symphony No. 3 [Karabits]
Nørgård: Symphony No. 8 [Storgårds]
Petterseson: Symphony No. 7 [Willén]
Berio: Sinfonia [Lintu]
Terterian: Symphony No. 3 [Karabits]
Ives: Symphony No. 4 [Tognetti]
Brian: Symphony No. 1 (Gothic) [Brabbins]
van Gilse: Symphony No. 3 [Porcelijn]
Stenhammar: Symphony No. 1 [Neeme Järvi]
Sumera: Symphony No. 2 [Kristjan Järvi]

Oh, and Ilan Volkov put Mahler 6 as his top choice. Lazarev went for Rachmaninov 1, 2 and 3.

[Dave2002]

Looking at the list, it seems to me that all the pieces could conceivably be played in under 24 hours, so a box set of CDs "All the Classical Symphonies you'll ever need or want to hear ..." would be marketable - and put a large number of the conductors out of work as that would no doubt be "definitive"!

Could also get them all on a memory stick in FLAC format!

[Tony Halstead]

I have to admit that I didn't recognise 47 of the conductors...
Very pleased to see that there were no contributions from several conductors whom I have always admired, e.g. ( in no particular order) Gardiner, Norrington, Pinnock, Barenboim, Loughran, Seaman and Ticciati.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My thanks to zola and Bryn

I know it's only supposed to be "a bit of fun" (like bear-baiting and dog fighting) but the more I've thought about this, the more annoying I find the whole endeavour. Could anyone seriously proclaim which were the three "greatest" (as opposed to "favourite") of the Beethoven Symphonies? Is the Fourth "inferior" to the Third, and, if so, how? Which of the Brahms Symphonies is "less great" than the three others?

What is meant by "great" in this context, anyway? Presumably (and I "presume" this from the absence of Haydn), those works most susceptible to the "death mask" treatment - frowning, serious, slow, huge, "profound"? The sort of idea that lets people think that they're making a serious statement when they pipe up that the last two Movements of the Eroica "aren't as great" as the first two? (And comments that HIPP performances "trivialize" the Ninth Symphony.)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Very pleased to see that there were no contributions from several conductors whom I have always admired, e.g. ( in no particular order) Gardiner, Norrington, Pinnock, Barenboim, Loughran, Seaman and Ticciati.

Phew!

(I almost don't dare to ask if Krivine and Kuijken contributed. Very disappointed to see Brabbins and Volkov amongst the contributors.)

Which publication was responsible for this farce?

[Bryn]

Three of the conductors did include a Haydn symphony (a diferen one for each) among their choices.

[zola]

Which publication was responsible for this farce?

BBC Music. They did a similar thing some time last year asking 100 pianists who were the greatest pianists ! Rachmaninov won. Not sure how many of those surveyed had seen him play.

[silvestrione]

I know I shouldn't, but I do like this sort of thing....bought the magazine for it. Yes, '20 greatest'... gets me interested straight away (20 greatest off-drives...number 1 would have to be Barry Richards, Cowdrey not far behind, etc.)

Surprised to see the Berlioz so high.

[Bryn]

Surprised to see the Berlioz so high.

Opium, IIRC.