B&W CM10 S2 loudspeakers

[umslopogaas]

#29 richardfinegold, your para two seems to have answered the question. If the measurements have been taken and are the same, then the equipment hasnt changed, so it must be the listeners' ears adapting. From a practical point of view it makes no difference, because a difference is perceived, however it originates. I didnt press my local hifi expert on whether he thought it was a change in the equipment or the ears, but I got the impression he thought it was the equipment. He also commented that even cables need to burn in.

I take the point that there can be aspects of some phenomena that we dont yet recognise, or know how to measure, but I thought acoustic science has a pretty complete idea of the structure of sound? Anyway, I'm afraid enzymes are as unknowable to me sound waves, I'm not that sort of biologist. I worked on plant diseases and biological control of pests, if your geraniums are looking droopy I can probably help, but I know as little of their enzymes as I do of oscilliscopes.

[pastoralguy]

When Mrs. PG and I went to audition new Hi-Fi equipment a couple of years ago, we went Glasgow to an extremely upmarket shop to hear systems. One of the systems that was being auditioned by another couple was a Linn set up that cost a cool £97,000! And that was without the CD player which was another £12k! (*)

The system was connected to a screen that downloaded music although I'm not sure what provider the source came from. One of the tracks we heard was the Beatle's 'Love me do' where you could hear that Lennon and McCartney were signing in thirds, such was the accuracy of the reproduction. It really was phenominal kit!

Alas, we didn't buy anything from them since everything else we heard that day sounded inferior to the Linn system.

(*) Mind you, if you think that's expensive, there was a pair of MartinLogan 'Neolith's' speakers that were reviewed in last month's Hi-Fi News that cost £79,500. Goodness knows what you would need to match them up with!

[pastoralguy]

Roll on winning the Lottery...

[umslopogaas]

Blimey ... that makes my Martin Logan Theos speakers the bargain basement items! I bought them secondhand, but new they are about five grand. I cant imagine that for twenty times the price they can make one that sounds twenty times better than mine, but I think expensive hi fi is like expensive fast cars: you pay proportionally more and more for proportionally less and less improvement. That's to say, twenty grand will buy you a hundred mph car, but forty grand wont buy you a two hundred mph car - I dont think.

[jayne lee wilson]

One of the joys of Computer Audio is the improvements possible from relatively cheap kit, like the £40 Audioquest Jitterbug and the $175 Uptone Regen...

http://www.audioquest.com/jitterbug/jitterbug

http://uptoneaudio.com/products/usb-regen

I fitted two jitterbugs on the Macbook Pro Output (one in series, one parallel) and the Regen at the T&A Dac 8 input (but I had to use a short Aqvox USB cable rather than the adapter plug) and was pleased at the result - purer clearer more precise sound and ultra-smoo-oo-oo-th. Helps get the best from hi-res, and gives my USB Replay a genuine character of its own, warmer than the chiselled precision of the Krell or Marantz CD Transports. It saved me, at least temporarily, having to take the MacMini/iPad route that I'd have preferred, but if I ever find time and cash to do that, they'll certainly be a part of the set-up....

[Beef Oven!]

Blimey ... that makes my Martin Logan Theos speakers the bargain basement items! I bought them secondhand, but new they are about five grand. I cant imagine that for twenty times the price they can make one that sounds twenty times better than mine, but I think expensive hi fi is like expensive fast cars: you pay proportionally more and more for proportionally less and less improvement. That's to say, twenty grand will buy you a hundred mph car, but forty grand wont buy you a two hundred mph car - I dont think.

Welcome to the hi-world of diminishing returns!

[MrGongGong]

One of the tracks we heard was the Beatle's 'Love me do' where you could hear that Lennon and McCartney were signing in thirds, such was the accuracy of the reproduction. It really was phenominal kit!

[MrGongGong]

(*) Mind you, if you think that's expensive, there was a pair of MartinLogan 'Neolith's' speakers that were reviewed in last month's Hi-Fi News that cost £79,500. Goodness knows what you would need to match them up with!

A trip to the psychiatrists?

[Tetrachord]

Agree that is a strange comment from a dealer. If that is representative of his or her knowledge base, tetra chord, you may want to rethink that long commute you make to seek their service .

Yes, my son said much the same thing yesterday afternoon. He was with me the day I listened to the Densen and has observed that the dealer (not the owner of the business) didn't seem to know some stuff. Also, it was a freezing day and they didn't have the heating on in the shop and other other people working there were freezing. I was cold too and when I spoke about this the salesman said, "we're trying to cut costs". Actually, I had to leave because I felt so cold...!!!

[richardfinegold]

Yes, my son said much the same thing yesterday afternoon. He was with me the day I listened to the Densen and has observed that the dealer (not the owner of the business) didn't seem to know some stuff. Also, it was a freezing day and they didn't have the heating on in the shop and other other people working there were freezing. I was cold too and when I spoke about this the salesman said, "we're trying to cut costs". Actually, I had to leave because I felt so cold...!!!

Sounds like they may be headed on the way out. The bright side of that is they appear to be willing to drop their costs
My advice is that you should spend more money on a good DAC, and then use a CD or DVD player as a transport

[MrGongGong]

I don't do the esoteric domestic hi-fi thing
but do wonder why people spend so much on DAC's (ignoring the woo nonsense of £1,000 IEC mains leads) when the places where the audio is edited and mastered tend to use these.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/index.php

A RME interface is likely to sound much much better and be more stable and accurate than any of the black slab, glass pyramid, glowing chrome orb nonsense.

One of those and a pair of Genelec's ?

[Tetrachord]

Sounds like they may be headed on the way out. The bright side of that is they appear to be willing to drop their costs
My advice is that you should spend more money on a good DAC, and then use a CD or DVD player as a transport

What's a DAC please? You see, I'm trying to buy good gear and don't know much about it!! I bought the speakers from Melbourne, not the same dealer who showed me the Densen CD player - which he demonstrated on the same speakers I've bought and which sounded fantastic. Compared to NAD and Marantz - well, there was NO comparison. I'm only worried because Densen is not making this CD player any more and servicing etc. could be an issue. Well, it WILL be an issue !! Perhaps I'll look at the Roksan CD players at the hifi shop in central Sydney. Will also need a good amplifier but may be able to get an 80w NAD at another place.

This is driving me mad!!

[umslopogaas]

A DAC is a digital audio converter - I think. I'll leave it to the more knowledgeable to explain what it does.

I have a Roksan K3 CD player, on the recommendation of my local hifi shop, and am very happy with it. I had never heard of Roksan before, but can thoroughly recommend them.

[Lordgeous]

I don't do the esoteric domestic hi-fi thing
but do wonder why people spend so much on DAC's (ignoring the woo nonsense of £1,000 IEC mains leads) when the places where the audio is edited and mastered tend to use these.

http://www.rme-audio.de/en/index.php

A RME interface is likely to sound much much better and be more stable and accurate than any of the black slab, glass pyramid, glowing chrome orb nonsense.

One of those and a pair of Genelec's ?

Excellent units. I use the RME for recording and mastering, though with ATC loudspeakers! Highly recommended in professional circles, though many of its features would be redundant for domestic use.

[MrGongGong]

Excellent units. I use the RME for recording and mastering, though with ATC loudspeakers! Highly recommended in professional circles, though many of its features would be redundant for domestic use.

Indeed
Even with the "redundancy" a decent RME interface would cost less than many of the things that the "hi-fi buffs" rave about.... if you have a spare let me know

Don't you find the ATC's a bit harsh for extended periods (though Jonty Harrison and others swear by them) ?