B&W CM10 S2 loudspeakers

[Tetrachord]

Here's a review of the Densen CD player (B-410XS) I was earlier talking about. I cannot make head or tail of it because of the shocking translation:

http://www.hifi-review.com/152521-densen-b-410xs.html

Does anybody know anything about equipment from Cambridge Audio?

[umslopogaas]

My local hi fi dealer mentioned Cambridge Audio recently and seems to think highly of them. I've always thought of them as a quality brand.

[MrGongGong]

Does anybody know anything about equipment from Cambridge Audio?

Going on the "cheapest Saab vs most expensive Lada" principle their gear seems to work well when i've used it in the past.
Along comes someone to tell me that as the solder hasn't been cyrogenically processed and stroked by virgins in the moonlight the "soundstage" will be deficient

[Cockney Sparrow]

Along comes someone to tell me that as the solder hasn't been cyrogenically processed and stroked by virgins in the moonlight the "soundstage" will be deficient

For once I can identify with something you are saying Mr GG.

To elucidate - a CD player contains a mechanical device. Only one or two mega corporations make them, and they only last so long. Sales of disc players is falling as music replay is replaced by iPads and streaming, so it is not a growing business.

So there is a case for buying a modest cost (matter of choice) CD player as long as it has a digital output, because in my view, all I need from it is the digital information - the Os and 1s. (It will either successfully read the 0s and 1s or you will hear disruption of the sound meaning it has failed). The digital connection goes to the DAC of your choice (no moving parts, should last far longer). As I'm sure you appreciate, the DAC converts the Os and 1s into the analogue info which either your conventional amp needs (or in my case which the DAC in my active speaker system needs). You can choose what DAC you go for - from, say £50 to mega £££ ($$$ I suppose) gold and silver styled units (no doubt assembled with the same soft hands of the said virgins). A point to bear in mind, there are only a few DAC chips so past a certain price level, the sound shouldn't be different, unless it is being coloured by the set up it is embedded in by the manufacturer in question.

I've never bought a very expensive CD player - if the mechanism fails I'd have paid a premium for the DAC which is built in. A very expensive player might well have a custom made CD player mechanism - so small batch made for small runs - and I would be at the mercy of the supply of spares and repair cost for that manufacturer at a future date.

I try to steel myself if I ever visit a Hi Fi dealer (well, I don't any more) - all the tactics of salesmanship are likely to be exercised, but I suppose one has to trust one's own ears in the final analysis.

[MrGongGong]

Another word of advice (following Alexi Sayle)

Maybe overstating it a tad? BUT

Anyone who uses the word "soundstage" and doesn't mean one of these



is talking out of their arse

[richardfinegold]

I would reiterate my earlier advice. Put the money in a good DAC which you can then use with other inputs such as a computer, TV, streamer, and CD player. Get an inexpensive CD or DVD player to attach to the DAC
Cambridge is a quality company but their gear is mass produced in China and their have been some reliability issues, the same as other companies who manufacture in that fashion.
If you go the Cambridge Audio route, and you want to investigate dACs, get a "DAC Magic".
And to be further redundant, I think that you should step back and do some basic reading about audio before you spend any money now that you might have cause to regret in the near future

[jayne lee wilson]

Another word of advice (following Alexi Sayle)

Maybe overstating it a tad? BUT

Anyone who uses the word "soundstage" and doesn't mean one of these



is talking out of their arse

OK so - I sit and listen to a sequence of stereo orchestral recordings, perceiving the 3 dimensions of height, width and depth in varying degrees, and imaging precision of orchestral sections and of individual instruments, again present to varying degrees in each recording. When I come to offer comment on them, I need a single term of comparison as to how well all this dimensional space and imaging is achieved by each production.

If you scorn the term "soundstaging" as a summary of this, would you like to offer a better single-word alternative?

[pastoralguy]

OK so - I sit and listen to a sequence of stereo orchestral recordings, perceiving the 3 dimensions of height, width and depth in varying degrees, and imaging precision of orchestral sections and of individual instruments, again present to varying degrees in each recording. When I come to offer comment on them, I need a single term of comparison as to how well all this dimensional space and imaging is achieved by each production.

If you scorn the term "soundstaging" as a summary of this, would you like to offer a better single-word alternative?

[Beef Oven!]

OK so - take it out. Listen. Put it back in. Listen again.......

Must I? It's so much hassle - all those interconnects, etc. Can't I just rely on my prejudices?

[jayne lee wilson]

For once I can identify with something you are saying Mr GG.

To elucidate - a CD player contains a mechanical device. Only one or two mega corporations make them, and they only last so long. Sales of disc players is falling as music replay is replaced by iPads and streaming, so it is not a growing business.

So there is a case for buying a modest cost (matter of choice) CD player as long as it has a digital output, because in my view, all I need from it is the digital information - the Os and 1s. (It will either successfully read the 0s and 1s or you will hear disruption of the sound meaning it has failed). The digital connection goes to the DAC of your choice (no moving parts, should last far longer). As I'm sure you appreciate, the DAC converts the Os and 1s into the analogue info which either your conventional amp needs (or in my case which the DAC in my active speaker system needs). You can choose what DAC you go for - from, say £50 to mega £££ ($$$ I suppose) gold and silver styled units (no doubt assembled with the same soft hands of the said virgins). A point to bear in mind, there are only a few DAC chips so past a certain price level, the sound shouldn't be different, unless it is being coloured by the set up it is embedded in by the manufacturer in question.

I've never bought a very expensive CD player - if the mechanism fails I'd have paid a premium for the DAC which is built in. A very expensive player might well have a custom made CD player mechanism - so small batch made for small runs - and I would be at the mercy of the supply of spares and repair cost for that manufacturer at a future date.

I try to steel myself if I ever visit a Hi Fi dealer (well, I don't any more) - all the tactics of salesmanship are likely to be exercised, but I suppose one has to trust one's own ears in the final analysis.

Hmm....
Surely any audiophile or SQ-conscious listeners will prefer lossless or 24-bit downloads, replayed in a bespoke Media Player like JRiver or Audirvana, to streaming? Streaming is just the fashionable fast food in classical music replay.

Several specialist firms still making CD Players or transports implement their own bespoke transports now - Simaudio Moon, Quad and Rega among the most recent...
AS for transport failure, in fact many designs are pretty rugged: the standard Philips CDM12 in my customised Marantz CD63 KI-Sig. was replaced in 2005, is still doing fine, and the ubiquitous replacements are straightforward plug-ins. The more, er, Esoteric Teac VRDS mechanism in my Krell 3OO-CD has needed servicing twice in... almost 20 years, but for the draw mechanism rather than the laser (cleaning is sufficient for these). Teac continue to make the VRDS transports and service them too. It has been a great 2ndhand investment for me (and better sounding than the Marantz itself, even just as a transport).

As for 0s and 1s, this overlooks the audible degradations produced by jitter. Timing errors in the information supplied by transport or computer to the Dac. Google it....
AS for Dac chips sounding similar, you might be surprised at the sheer variety of brands & of design-architecture offered in Dacs now, from a single stereo chip to a non-oversampling design like the one from Metrum which has 8 Dacs per channel!.
But most of all, the choice of filters often put into modern Dacs gives the listener a choice of SQ-profiles - to suit ears, speakers, rooms and the varied recorded balances. Personally I've found these really useful (and a lot of fun) in both the DacMagic and the T&A 8.
It's quite an exciting time in digital designing & listening really, especially if you do Computer Audio....!

I'm sure we'll see fewer (but perhaps better & more specialised) CD players or transports as the future swoops toward us, but there are a lot of CDs out there....
You've got to play them on something.

[MrGongGong]

OK so - I sit and listen to a sequence of stereo orchestral recordings, perceiving the 3 dimensions of height, width and depth in varying degrees, and imaging precision of orchestral sections and of individual instruments, again present to varying degrees in each recording. When I come to offer comment on them, I need a single term of comparison as to how well all this dimensional space and imaging is achieved by each production.

If you scorn the term "soundstaging" as a summary of this, would you like to offer a better single-word alternative?

In my experience none of the mastering engineers who know how to make this stuff work use the phase.
They talk about depth, stereo image, separation etc

A "soundstage" is where you record sound for movies.

Maybe there does need to be another word.

Don't get me wrong I'm not dissing EVERYTHING about hi end audio... and if you want to bung me your ATC's i'm more than happy to take them off your hands

[pastoralguy]

Don't get me wrong...:

Heaven forbid!

[Lordgeous]

How has this thread moved from LSpeakers to CD players??!!

[Tetrachord]

How has this thread moved from LSpeakers to CD players??!!

There is a somewhat symbiotic relationship between the two. It's my fault, though.

[Tetrachord]

Another word of advice (following Alexi Sayle)

Maybe overstating it a tad? BUT

Anyone who uses the word "soundstage" and doesn't mean one of these



is talking out of their arse

No doubt a unusual spectacle, since it implies excruciating physical contortions!!