Sad times

[Beef Oven!]

Seems that Omar Mir Seddique Mateen had scouted Disney World as a possible target, according to his wife, Noor Zahi Salman. This just reinforces the random nature of these IS/IS-inspired attacks, and shows that nowhere is safe.

We surely live in a truly dreadful world.

[richardfinegold]

Seems that Omar Mir Seddique Mateen had scouted Disney World as a possible target, according to his wife, Noor Zahi Salman. This just reinforces the random nature of these IS/IS-inspired attacks, and shows that nowhere is safe.

We surely live in a truly dreadful world.

To bad he didn't try...Goofy would have nailed him before he could have hurt anyone
Orlando is normally such a happy place. If you can stand the heat and humidity, the whole region tries to make one forget about the ugliness of Reality. I am sure that was part of the Intent, to permenantly ruin a place devoted to making people forget their cares.

[greenilex]

I too found the response in Soho particularly moving. It is a time for people to cherish their common humanity.

[Beef Oven!]

To bad he didn't try...Goofy would have nailed him before he could have hurt anyone
Orlando is normally such a happy place. If you can stand the heat and humidity, the whole region tries to make one forget about the ugliness of Reality. I am sure that was part of the Intent, to permenantly ruin a place devoted to making people forget their cares.

Your last point hadn't occurred to me. Gruesome. Evil. Anyone who can do this sort of thing is subhuman.

[Dave2002]

Pure evil.

Very probably.

Note however that the concept of "evil" may require definite malicious intent. It is possible that some very sad or ill people simply want to commit suicide, and they don't even think of the consequences for other people. There have been a few incidents involving aircraft in recent years, where pilot suicide may have been the principal motive, but very sadly a large number of others may be killed in the process.

I suppose that if some potential suicides even think about this they may reason that since their own lives are worthless (to them) that the same applies to others, and thus a self imposed brake on their actions will not be applied.

I believe that in some police forces "suicide by shoot out" is a recognised behaviour.

[Beef Oven!]

Very probably.

Note however that the concept of "evil" may require definite malicious intent. It is possible that some very sad or ill people simply want to commit suicide, and they don't even think of the consequences for other people. There have been a few incidents involving aircraft in recent years, where pilot suicide may have been the principal motive, but very sadly a large number of others may be killed in the process.

I suppose that if some potential suicides even think about this they may reason that since their own lives are worthless (to them) that the same applies to others, and thus a self imposed brake on their actions will not be applied.

I believe that in some police forces "suicide by shoot out" is a recognised behaviour.

What information there is so far, suggests this was an IS/IS-inspired attack on western society, not an individual's double-selfish suicide.

[Dave2002]

What information there is so far, suggests this was an IS/IS-inspired attack on western society, not an individual's double-selfish suicide.

Not sure about the information, but indeed it does seem at least to have been inspired that way, even if not directed. That's why I used the phrase "very probably" in my response to your earlier message and your description/assessment would seem to apply.

[Bryn]

Not sure about the information, but indeed it does seem at least to have been inspired that way, even if not directed. That's why I used the phrase "very probably" in my response to your earlier message and your description/assessment would seem to apply.

It now appears that Omar Mateen may have been gay himself, and struggling with the contradiction between his sexuality and his religion's condemnation of that sexuality.

[Beef Oven!]

It now appears that Omar Mateen may have been gay himself, and struggling with the contradiction between his sexuality and his religion's condemnation of that sexuality.

Doncha just love religion?

This sort of thing is why in the last ten years I've gone from agnostic Christian, wanting to believe - agnostic - atheist - antitheist. I wonder where next, for me.

[Richard Barrett]

It now appears that Omar Mateen may have been gay himself, and struggling with the contradiction between his sexuality and his religion's condemnation of that sexuality.

Thousands if not millions of people struggle every day with this and related issues but they don't buy an assault rifle and go out killing people. So obviously religion in itself isn't to blame. On the other hand while the USA is home to 5% of the world's population it's the country where a third of mass shootings take place. These statistics are hardly "random". The president of the USA is proverbially the most powerful man in the world but he has been unable in eight years to pass any laws restricting the sale of deadly weapons in that country, although given that he has also massively escalated drone assassinations (a large majority of whose victims are innocent bystanders) in the Middle East his stated concern for saving lives is perhaps not to be taken at face value.

[ahinton]

Thousands if not millions of people struggle every day with this and related issues but they don't buy an assault rifle and go out killing people. So obviously religion in itself isn't to blame. On the other hand while the USA is home to 5% of the world's population it's the country where a third of mass shootings take place. These statistics are hardly "random". The president of the USA is proverbially the most powerful man in the world but he has been unable in eight years to pass any laws restricting the sale of deadly weapons in that country, although given that he has also massively escalated drone assassinations (a large majority of whose victims are innocent bystanders) in the Middle East his stated concern for saving lives is perhaps not to be taken at face value.

So much for all the hype about the US President (whoever he happens to be at any given time) being the most powerful leader on the planet, or whatever. "He has been unable" to pass laws on gun sales, ownership, licensing and use? "He has been unable" to close Guantanamo? How much "power" does he really have?

I agree with your remark about drones, but how long is it likely to be before US citizens are granted not only the right to bear arms but the right to acquire drones and use them for purposes that may or may not be peaceful?

[Serial_Apologist]

So much for all the hype about the US President (whoever he happens to be at any given time) being the most powerful leader on the planet, or whatever. "He has been unable" to pass laws on gun sales, ownership, licensing and use? "He has been unable" to close Guantanamo? How much "power" does he really have?

I agree with your remark about drones, but how long is it likely to be before US citizens are granted not only the right to bear arms but the right to acquire drones and use them for purposes that may or may not be peaceful?

As far as I know the prez dos have the power to declare and take America to war, though I'm not sure where I heard that. What he does not appear to have is the power to stop America going to war on itself.

[jean]

How much "power" does he really have?

Not so much, when Congress is dominated by the Republicans.

[Richard Barrett]

As far as I know the prez dos have the power to declare and take America to war, though I'm not sure where I heard that. What he does not appear to have is the power to stop America going to war on itself.

Since the 1970s (in the aftermath of the Vietnam War) the president's ability to wage foreign wars without the approval of Congress has been severely curtailed, but, given the makeup of Congress and the huge influence on it of the "defense" industry this is unlikely ever to be a problem. On the other hand the President is empowered to issue Executive Orders which can only be rescinded by the Supreme Court (Obama has issued fewer of these than most of his predecessors), but, given that the Supreme Court is a relatively conservative body and the US Constitution is popularly interpreted as enshrining the right to bear arms, issuing such an order would be unlikely to succeed without a major struggle. Obama seems to have concluded that it wasn't worth the bother, which is a shame for all the people who lose their lives in the USA every year through gun violence (and of course gun-related accidents).

[Beef Oven!]

Thousands if not millions of people struggle every day with this and related issues but they don't buy an assault rifle and go out killing people. So obviously religion in itself isn't to blame. On the other hand while the USA is home to 5% of the world's population it's the country where a third of mass shootings take place. These statistics are hardly "random". The president of the USA is proverbially the most powerful man in the world but he has been unable in eight years to pass any laws restricting the sale of deadly weapons in that country, although given that he has also massively escalated drone assassinations (a large majority of whose victims are innocent bystanders) in the Middle East his stated concern for saving lives is perhaps not to be taken at face value.

Millions of people buy guns in the US and they don't go out and do this. Nothing is straight forward, I suppose.