Sad times

[P. G. Tipps]

I don't think it's sophistry so much as a total failure to understand human psychology.

Oh, do make up your minds, you two!

Or could it just be ... JUST be ... plain common sense that many of the rest of us have absolutely no difficulty in comprehending?

Or as I would put it, if someone subscribes to a particular religionn and that religion makes it very clear to them that an aspect of their being is quite unacceptable to their God, this conflict can result in a a self-hatred more intense than any directed at the other.

Well, if one simply 'subscribes' to a particular religion, and is unhappy with any aspect of it, the answer seems to me to be glaringly obvious.

However if one is forced to subscribe to any creed or religion, whether that be theist or atheist, then I agree that you might well have a point!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Anti-Semitism is a term most often used to refer to people who despise Jews, but I've never understood this, as Semites can refer to anyone from that region - Jordan, Palestine, Israel Syria, Egypt, Libya.

[Serial_Apologist]

Anti-Semitism is a term most often used to refer to people who despise Jews, but I've never understood this, as Semites can refer to anyone from that region - Jordan, Palestine, Israel Syria, Egypt, Libya.

Hadn't thought of that.

[Richard Barrett]

Anti-Semitism is a term most often used to refer to people who despise Jews, but I've never understood this, as Semites can refer to anyone from that region - Jordan, Palestine, Israel Syria, Egypt, Libya.

"The root word Semite gives the false impression that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people. However, the compound word antisemite was popularized in Germany in 1879 as a scientific-sounding term for Judenhass "Jew-hatred", and that has been its common use since then." (Wikipedia, fully referenced in original)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

"The root word Semite gives the false impression that antisemitism is directed against all Semitic people. However, the compound word antisemite was popularized in Germany in 1879 as a scientific-sounding term for Judenhass "Jew-hatred", and that has been its common use since then." (Wikipedia, fully referenced in original)

I'm not sure how that works in translation, as I only know two words in German, but thanks for the pointer.

[jean]

It doesn't matter what the etymology is; it's how the word is used that counts.

So much the more, if the word was specifically coined for a particular meaning, as is the case here.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Having now read the Wikipedia article, it seems to confirm what I thought - that the word is now used in error simply because so few people know what "Semite" means. Misusing the language in this way could actually feed the offensiveness of the hatred. Israel and the surrounding countries all belong to the same racial sub-group, so to attack Jews on racial grounds is also to attack Egyptians, Palestinians, Jordanians ad Libyans. Realising that they are in fact of the same race only emphasises the weakness of racism as we know it.

I do not come from a Jewish or Semitic family, but my father suffered at school in the 1920s, and was called "Isaac" because he had quite a large nose. To be called Jewish seemed like an insult, even though it clearly was not. As a son of my father, in my later time at school I became known as "Fagin". (Dickens quite racist too.) In 2012 I was surprised when one of my friends apologised to me for the way he thought I'd been treated, saying "it must have been hurtful, just because your father was Jewish". Such is the way of rumour becoming "fact".

[P. G. Tipps]

Yes, the word like 'homophobia' is now regularly used to describe some of those who simply disagree with a particularly fashionable point of view.

For example, I have no sympathy with Ken Livingstone's politics but do I genuinely believe his recent widely-publicised comments were anti-Semitic?

Absolutely not!

[jean]

Well, I must disagree.

[jean]

Having now read the Wikipedia article, it seems to confirm what I thought - that the word is now used in error simply because so few people know what "Semite" means.

If the article says that, the article is wrong.

The word was coined to mean Jew-hating, so that's what it means. Period.

You might as well say that homophobia means fear of the same.

(Perhaps in the case we've been discussing, it really does.)

[P. G. Tipps]

Well, I must disagree.

Fair enough, at least that is a response that makes some sense!

[MrGongGong]

No, but neither Anders or any other non-Muslim killers/terrorists/delete where appropriate claim that they are doing it in the name of their religion. Surely food for thought ?

"any"other?
David Koresh
Jim Jones
?

Pretending that people who commit terrible things are confined to one group and that everyone else is somehow free of this is a bit iffy IMV

[Flosshilde]

Or could it just be ... JUST be ... plain common sense that many of the rest of us have absolutely no difficulty in comprehending?

I usually find your 'plain common sense' incomprehensible - it's neither plain, common, or sense. Whereas I have no difficulty in understanding Jean & Richard above.

Well, if one simply 'subscribes' to a particular religion, and is unhappy with any aspect of it, the answer seems to me to be glaringly obvious.

However if one is forced to subscribe to any creed or religion,

I think that many religious believers are 'forced' into it, in the sense that they are introduced to it as children and are not able to exercise a choice, often not even when they are adults. And the ideas and beliefs that they are exposed to as children are very difficult to shake off even if they can free themselves from the formal, organised practice. If they are told from an early age that homosexuality is evil, they will think of themselves as evil when they realise at a later age that they are homosexual.

But I don't expect that you will understand that, or even try to.

[Dave2002]

Anti-Semitism is a term most often used to refer to people who despise Jews, but I've never understood this, as Semites can refer to anyone from that region - Jordan, Palestine, Israel Syria, Egypt, Libya.

This might explain it -

http://www.britannica.com/topic/anti-Semitism

I think you are quite right - that many people from the areas you mention can be referred to as Semites, so logically an "anti-Semite" would have a disalike or opposition to anyone from those areas. However, it does look as though the word has been created specifically to have a slightly different meaning. There was a similar word coined slightly earlier in Germany, with a similar meaning.

I have difficulty with the meaning implying "hatred of". Many people do not have a hatred of Jews, but may be critical of some aspects of some of their actions, or actions or policies of the government of Israel. That is not the same thing at all, but such people are often labelled as anti-Semitic.

[P. G. Tipps]

I usually find your 'plain common sense' incomprehensible - it's neither plain, common, or sense. Whereas I have no difficulty in understanding Jean & Richard above.




I think that many religious believers are 'forced' into it, in the sense that they are introduced to it as children and are not able to exercise a choice, often not even when they are adults. And the ideas and beliefs that they are exposed to as children are very difficult to shake off even if they can free themselves from the formal, organised practice. If they are told from an early age that homosexuality is evil, they will think of themselves as evil when they realise at a later age that they are homosexual.

But I don't expect that you will understand that, or even try to.

No, you're right, Flossie, I don't understand but how I try, oh how I try!

Children, if blessed, normally grow into adults. Adults normally have the ability to make up their own minds regarding personal belief and, if they are fortunate enough to live in a free society, can go on to practise their own morality as they see fit within the law.

Why do you (and, of course, Richard & Jean) blame others for the moral failures of the individual?

Everyone in a free society has choices when it comes to a personal belief system, whether they are rich or poor or, like most of us, somewhere in between.

Nobody is forced to believe anything!