Hurray! The High Court backs Mr Platt....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Poor man, but I do wonder what is wrong with a week in a caravan in Prestatyn ?

A bit harsh - I think most people would prefer to pay the fine.

[Beef Oven!]

But ... supposing it's the week that they do The Apostrophe? Or the difference between "less" and "fewer"?

It's not just Education that's at stake here - it's Pedants' Paradise!

I missed lots of school through illness and truancy and it ain't done me no harm. I could of guessed that people would be up in arms about this and chomping at the bit - definately one for the pedants, this. People worry to much about children missing school.

[ahinton]

I missed lots of school through illness and truancy and it ain't done me no harm. I could of guessed that people would be up in arms about this and chomping at the bit - definately one for the pedants, this. People worry to much about children missing school.

Haydn used to play truant. It doesn't seem to have done him much harm. I don't think, however, that his truancy ever resulted from his parents taking him on a caravan vacation in Mrs Trellis land...

Anyway, I'm just waiting for a truancy fine to be imposed upon the parents of a child ordered to return home from school on account of failure to wear high heels and thereby comply with the school dress code, but would such dress codes be permissible only as long as UK remains within EU? - and might parents be entitled to exoneration from truancy fines if they could prove that their absentee children were attending an EUYO rehearsal while they still could?

[french frank]

But ... supposing it's the week that they do The Apostrophe? Or the difference between "less" and "fewer"?

It appears that people have been skipping these classes for more than a generation …

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It appears that people have been skipping these classes for more than a generation …

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I missed lots of school through illness and truancy and it ain't done me no harm. I could of guessed that people would be up in arms about this and chomping at the bit - definately one for the pedants, this. People worry to much about children missing school.

[P. G. Tipps]

It appears that people have been skipping these classes for more than a generation …

... and robbing banks as well ...

[Dave2002]

The idea that HMG is going to "tighten" things up is laughable. There are schools in the UK where the staff have no idea how many kids are in or out of school on any one day, and it's possible that more than 10% of the roll are unaccounted for. More effort could be put into getting school management in order, rather than chasing up parents who are at least responsible enough to declare where they are taking their children for shortish periods.

I don't believe that the loss of a week or two of school will make much difference to many kids. It has been stated elsewhere that bright ones will make up for the loss quickly enough, and that is probably true. There is a converse logic - which I'll leave for the reader.

Of course timing is an issue. It would be wrong to take someone out of school just before exams, or at critical times, but a reasonable approach in consultation with the teachers would make more sense than head teachers threatening fines.

Are schools or local authorities now going to be forced to repay any fines which have been paid over the last few years? Probably not.

There are big issues regarding the relationships between parents and schools. Many parents are responsible, and will try to do the best for their children, and may be best placed to make a judgement. There are also a considerable number who are less concerned - but should schools be used to force such parents to take more control and interest in their children's education? It is, of course, not PC to indicate the possible differences between school areas, or to generalise without care. The current issue re the "named person" in Scotland does focus in on some of the problems, but does not necessarily come up with a good solution. Trying to coerce adults into being good responsible parents may be almost impossible. There are also some children who are very problematic - not their fault - but resources are inadequate to cope with them.

Ideally parents and schools should be working towards common goals. It may not be right to shift the balance of power towards schools - just as shifting the balance in the other direction can give rise to problems. Our state education system is a public institution, which is working on cost/efficiency measures, and using blunt instruments in an attempt to enforce "quality". League tables etc. may overall give improvements in an average sort of way, but may also disadvantage both less able and very able students. Forcing children to do subjects (often maths) which they can't cope with doesn't always lead to good results, while feeding a less demanding curriculum to able children simply dampens enthusiasm and may not give such children the full benefit of their natural advantages.

[waldo]

Of course this only applies to "state" schools........

Yes, and I think the difference is revealing. No private school Headteacher would ever dream about fining a paying customer. The parents would walk - right to the nearest school and take their cheque book with them. The system there is based on trust and a mutual understanding with regards to the importance of education. In the state sector, parents have almost no comparable rights. There is no mutual understanding. Only mistrust. Take your child out for a day trip - and you get a fine. Schools used to be a public service. Now they are part of a coercive system that helps to criminalise ordinary people.

Obviously, these regulations were only introduced to help schools deal with a tiny percentage of parents. All the evidence suggests that the vast majority care about their children's education and want them to attend as fully as possible. You don't get "anarchy" without regulations and fines: you get more or less the same situation, only schools have slightly less leverage over that 2% of the population that don't value education. Once you grant fining powers, however, the old rule applies: it gets used as often as possible, regardless of the merits of the individual case.

The idea, finally, that missing a few weeks here and there can do any harm to a child's education is sheer nonsense. No-one with more than 2 brain cells can believe this. Are the lessons that effective? That well taught that they just can't be missed? Most of us here probably spent our time daydreaming and staring out of the window. Schools move very, very slowly. You can get off the bus for a few weeks, come back and find almost nothing has happened. 99% of the time is taken up with rituals and classroom routines, pointless discussions, slow moving explanations, repetitions for the "slow" children, disciplinary events etc. I could have missed whole years and it wouldn't have made any difference.

[Dave2002]

It appears that people have been skipping these classes for more than a generation …

Also they haven't been getting enough vitamins from the fruits which they eat.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

The idea, finally, that missing a few weeks here and there can do any harm to a child's education is sheer nonsense. No-one with more than 2 brain cells can believe this. Are the lessons that effective? That well taught that they just can't be missed? Most of us here probably spent our time daydreaming and staring out of the window. Schools move very, very slowly. You can get off the bus for a few weeks, come back and find almost nothing has happened. 99% of the time is taken up with rituals and classroom routines, pointless discussions, slow moving explanations, repetitions for the "slow" children, disciplinary events etc. I could have missed whole years and it wouldn't have made any difference.

I'm afraid that's as simplistic as saying the world will fall apart if you miss two weeks of school.
"Schools move very, very slowly". Speeds vary considerably between different subjects and times. Some pupils will make up the lost ground in an instant. Others will flounder having missed a single key lesson. Also, educational methods have moved on (for better or worse) and there is less breathing space.

[jean]

...No private school Headteacher would ever dream about fining a paying customer...

Or perhaps no parent would treat in so cavalier a fashion the education for which they'd paid such vast sums on behalf of their child.

.

[teamsaint]

Or perhaps no parent would treat in so cavalier a fashion the education for which they'd paid such vast sums on behalf of their child.

.

Some private school school parents certainly do.
In any case they tend to beat the holiday cost issue by having shorter terms.

[waldo]

Or perhaps no parent would treat in so cavalier a fashion the education for which they'd paid such vast sums on behalf of their child.

.

Well, "cavalier" rather begs the question, doesn't it? If you have some evidence that taking a holiday in term time is damaging, do please present it. If not, I assume it is merely an assumption. Or a guess.

As a matter of fact, private school children take plenty of holidays in term time. (I spent about ten years teaching in a well known one). No-one ever questions it. As a percentage of time taken over the many years they spend in school, it amounts to almost nothing. I have never known a pupil whose progress was thrown off course by a week in France.

[Dave2002]

One problem can be that if children take time off in term time, that there might always be someone in each class who has missed a week or two, and the "[Please]** Sir/Miss, can you go over that again for me ..." is just not feasible, and really throws the teachers off. In schools where there are more resources, or a different ethos this may not present a problem, but in some schools it may be really a major issue. There may be organisational ways of getting round this, but not all schools are imaginative enough to find ways, or they may really just not have enough resources.

** possibly, most likely, optional these days