Inflation?

[gradus]

Not so many years since all those people who didn't ask the right questions of experts found their highly respected widely trusted pension provider, Equitable Life, had gone t*** u*. Mind you what else do you expect when mug investors like MPs, judges, doctors and sundry other nitwits place their trust in a company that had been running since 1762 and haven't got the sense to ask the right questions. It was alright in the end though, if you lived long enough after the initial shock. Experts don't you just love 'em.

[MrGongGong]

Dear MrGongGong, When someone writes something like, "I 'ad a financial adviser once" and adds a smiley, it could be taken as a sign that there could be a scintilla of irony involved No need to take literally.

I don't know to whhhat you are referring with the comment, "Oh you mean for people who have more than enough money and don't know what to do with it?" Because I seemed to be conforming to your own advice and consulting a financial adviser? Or because my income is now so low that I no longer have to pay tax?

I wasn't being serious either
BUT since i'm still completely unable to edit or delete messages (and i'm multi shirking) I couldn't correct it

[Anastasius]

Fascinating resource, teamsaint...

From that era (I started working for the BBC in 1968) I remember a fabulous allowance called Schedule A which was a 24-hour subsistence allowance to cover all outgoings when away from home. This was an agreed tax-free sum with the Inland Revenue. Of course, we didn't stay away for every single programme but it was rumoured that many of the cameramen banked their salaries and paid for all their normal outgoings, mortgage, food bills etc from their Schedule A.. Not surprising really seeing as how in todays money it comes out to just over £500!

The other figure that sticks in my mind is our first 'house'. I say 'house' but actually it was the ground floor conversion of one side of a semi-detached. There was a chap who owned the conversion above us and a lovely old lady who owned the other semi. In todays money it works out at £115000.

Worth putting in the price of a pint of milk. Kind of explains why so many dairy farmers are pulling out.

[ahinton]

I'm genuinely staggered that some members who (maybe understandably) are so cynical of much of today's capitalist society are now apparently falling over themselves to defend and even recommend 'Independent Financial Advisors'!

So you would be - or perhaps are - happy to remain in ignorance of your financial affairs because you've made up your mind that you'd not trust anyone to advise you? That suggests wilful lack of care for any aspects of your finances beyond those that you can already undertand yourself. As I stated previously, it's your call...

[ahinton]

Oh you mean for people who have more than enough money and don't know what to do with it?
Germain Greer had the answer to that "fuck pensions, buy art"

Forgetting, of course, that art of many kinds is owned by some pension funds...

[ahinton]

After 20 years of baffling impenetrable cobblers from a succession of investment 'experts' a friend found that a large part of her pension pot had wound up invested - entirely without her knowing what was going on - in an offshore fund devoted to a teak plantation, apparently because of severe losses in a UK investment which her 'expert' tried to cover by placing her funds overseas. It took her most recent 'expert' about 4 months to find out where her money had gone - at one point it seemed to have disappeared completely - and to get a rough estimate of the value of the investment and when it might be retrievable. All of this happened whilst being looked after by high-charging reputable investment 'experts'. It remains to be seen when and if she ever gets her money back.

It sounds as though someone ought to have told your friend long ago about the Financial Ombudsman Service

And no, the chief Ombudsman there isn't called Tom...

There's a lot to be said for Granny Bonds, Index-Linked Isas, Index-Linked Savings Certs and if you can afford it, property.

Is there? Nothing wrong with any of these, of course, except that you'd have to trust the government with the first three and there are at least as many property scams as there are other financial ones.

Final salary pensions RIP.

Indeed - and who's to say that the other kinds won't eventually follow suit? All pension schemes are dependent upon financial advisors who work for the pension trustees.

[ahinton]

Oh, Mr GG. I don't stick pins in anything and my eyes are wide open when it comes to filthy lucre. As for my money I simply explore all possibilities and then come to a decision. There are no guarantees in life especially when it comes to financial investments. 'Independent Financial Advisors' can get it hopelessly wrong just like anyone else. Many of the so-called aforementioned also have hidden (and sometimes not-so-hidden) connections with large financial institutions.

I don't mind being proved wrong with my own money. However, I'd never forgive myself for being so naive as to put my own money in the hands of others whose only real concern and ultimate goal is simply to attain a hefty slice of it!

.
The 'questions', whether right or wrong, are all yours and not mine.

I don't have a "problem" at all with my own money, it's you (and others) who suddenly seem to have a surprising and quite unexpected "problem" with my own money!

What you seem to forget here is that, other than the cash in your pocket at any time, your money is always in others' hands. Don't you ever use a bank or building society? What about those who pay you your income?

[Dave2002]

What you seem to forget here is that, other than the cash in your poacket at any time, your money is always in others' hands. Don't you ever use a bank or building society? What about those who pay you your income?

Surely that's not the point that was being made. Most of us use banks, building societies, or hold money or items of value in other ways. I think the issue being raised is whether you'd let someone else manage it all for you.

The finance industry claims it can do so, but there are often warnings - values can go down as well as up. If I bet on a horse (I've hardly ever done that!) and it doesn't win, then that's my "problem". Most people would not give £10,000 to someone else and just let them do the betting for them (though perhaps some very rich people might). The issue is one of responsibility. We take responsibility and consequences for our own decisions, but we don't, or shouldn't always trust others to make decisions for us - probably rightly so.

[P. G. Tipps]

What you seem to forget here is that, other than the cash in your poacket at any time, your money is always in others' hands. Don't you ever use a bank or building society? What about those who pay you your income?

I've somehow managed to choose my own bank pretty successfully despite a long aversion to 'independent' third-party advice, ahinton.

As for pensions ... which is the income that applies to myself ... that brings us right back to the fact that people are generally at the mercy of the provider whether that be State or Private. Many in work have seen employee pension arrangements altered and State pension payments for new retirees were changed only last month. That reliance on the fairness and probity of providers (whoever these are) was largely the point I was making and with which you initially appeared to take such strong exception!

I cannot see how paying for someone else to make up one's own mind without any guarantees of avoiding big losses helps anyone but the 'someone else', whose money (formerly one's own) is completely safe regardless!

We are now in the age of the internet, and have been for some time. All facts and figures on types of pensions and advice from reputable sources, which do not demand a slice of your hard-earned money in advance, is available to anyone who takes the trouble to find out these things for themselves.

'Independent Financial Advisors' don't magically change what is available and/or cannot predict what will happen to their own investments never mind anyone elses. However, if you wish to avail yourself of such a 'service', using your own money, I can assure you that I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever, ahinton!

[ahinton]

Surely that's not the point that was being made. Most of us use banks, building societies, or hold money or items of value in other ways. I think the issue being raised is whether you'd let someone else manage it all for you.

But to a point that's just what the banks, &c. are doing - managing it, by reason of using it as they see fit, charging what interest and bank charges that they see fit, &c.; it's just a matter of degree and there are many levels of "management" of client funds that can be sought within the financial advice market.

The finance industry claims it can do so, but there are often warnings - values can go down as well as up. If I bet on a horse (I've hardly ever done that!) and it doesn't win, then that's my "problem". Most people would not give £10,000 to someone else and just let them do the betting for them (though perhaps some very rich people might). The issue is one of responsibility. We take responsibility and consequences for our own decisions, but we don't, or shouldn't always trust others to make decisions for us - probably rightly so.

Likewise we would be unwise to not trust ourselves to do things in which we have insufficient professional expertise.

[MrGongGong]

We are now in the age of the internet, and have been for some time. All facts and figures on types of pensions and advice from reputable sources, which do not demand a slice of your hard-earned money in advance, is available to anyone who takes the trouble to find out these things for themselves.

Excellent response

Confusing knowledge with information I see

I'm interested in underwater sound so I thought I would look up some information about the effects of temperature on acoustic impedance.

(ACOUSTIC IMPEDANCE OF SEAWATER AS
A FUNCTION OF TEMPERATURE, PRESSURE AND SALINITY)



C = 1449.14 + 4.5721 T - 4.4532 x 10-2T - 2.6045 x 10-4T3 + 7.9851 x 10-6T4 + 1.63431 x 10-1F + 1.0677 x 10-5F 2
+ 3.7340 x 10-9F - 3 - 3.6332 x i0-12 4 + 1.39799 (S-35.0) + 1.69202 x 10- 3 (S-35.0) 2 + (s-35.0) (-1.1244 x 10-2T
+ 7.7711 x 10- 7 T2 + 7.8534 x 10-5p - 1.3458 x I0-7P2 + 3.2202 x 10-8PT + 1.6101 x 10-9PT 2 ) + 1.01971 F
(-1.8607 x 10-4T + 7.4812 x 10-6T2 + 4.5283 x 10-ST 3 + 1.03981 p2 (-2.5294 x 10-7T 4 1.8563 x 10- T2 )
+ 1.06030 P3 (-1.9646 x 10- 10T)


The standard ceviations were computed from the expression
N2
r (xe - xc
Cr =n=1N-c (3)


Simple stuff really.... using the PG method i'll be away for a while, though I might ask someone I know who knows about this stuff?

[french frank]

we would be unwise to not trust ourselves to do things in which we have insufficient professional expertise.

(I'm sure there's a clearer way of saying that …)

It would depend what 'insufficient professional expertise' was understood to mean. More people than not, I would guess, are capable of changing a light bulb or an electric plug without the advice of an electrician. Some of us may even dare to do so, unaided, each time risking our house being burned down.

[ahinton]

I've somehow managed to choose my own bank pretty successfully despite a long aversion to 'independent' third-party advice, ahinton.

The extent of your knowlege of the kinds of thing that Independent Financial Advisers do would appear to be gravely limited by reason of your implication that they advise clients on which banks to use!

As for pensions ... which is the income that applies to myself ... that brings us right back to the fact that people are generally at the mercy of the provider whether that be State or Private. Many in work have seen employee pension arrangements altered and State pension payments for new retirees were changed only last month. That reliance on the fairness and probity of providers (whoever these are) was largely the point I was making and with which you initially appeared to take such strong exception!

Any financial advisor worth her/his salt knows perfectly well that the vagaries of the market and those of government in changing the rules / rates /qualifying years / entry age entitlements / age for final contributions / tax treatment &c. in repsect both of state retirement benefit and private / occupational pensions will also be aware that providers' 100% fairness and probity cannot always be relied upon; were everyone to think that they could do as well as IFAs in managing their own financial arrangments, there would be no market for them, so it is clear that most people think nothing of the kind.

I cannot see how paying for someone else to make up one's own mind without any guarantees of avoiding big losses helps anyone but the 'someone else', whose money (formerly one's own) is completely safe regardless!

IFAs' duties specifically exclude telling the client what to do; their rôle is by definition an advisory one, not that of the equivalent of Power of Attorney.

We are now in the age of the internet, and have been for some time. All facts and figures on types of pensions and advice from reputable sources, which do not demand a slice of your hard-earned money in advance, is available to anyone who takes the trouble to find out these things for themselves.

Leaving aside that fact that not all internet sites providing financial information do so for free, it is clear that not only is a little knowledge a dangerous thing but also that a lot of it (especially when improperly digested) is proportionately much more of one. Mere facts and figures are not all that's necessary in order to arrive at the most suitable financial decisions which, being personal, are dependent upon thorough understanding of individual circumstances, aspirations and much more; if you believe that simply finding out facts and figures that are available for free on the internet substitutes for intelligent, well-researched and considered financial advice in what is an ever-increasingly complex market place, so be it, but that's a problem of your own making even though you appear not to see it as such.

You miss MrGG's points here as though by default. In assuming, for example, that you'd not ask the postman to wire your house, his implicit meaning was also that you would ask a qualified and experienced electrician to do it instead and would not attempt to do it yourself (even if the postman might be capable of PAT testing the end result!). You also ignore the fact that there are institutional safeguards against the outcome of inappropriate financial advice and, whilst there are rogue advisers just as there are rogues in just about every profession, these are in the minority and the regulation of financial advice is very tough indeed; in addition to the regulators the Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) and Prudential Regulation Authority (PRA) there are the Financial Services Compensation Scheme (FSCS) and the Financial Ombudsman Service (FOS) and, whilst I'd be the last person to claim that none of these is flawed, it's not as though financial services and advice is an unregulated free-for-all with no checks (or cheques!) and balances, which is how you seem to see the industry.

Would you conduct your own case in Court without recourse to lawyers, barristers, &c.? Would you do your own accounts rather than engage an accountant to do them regardless of how complex they might be? If so, you presumably have no merely a deep distrust of all of these professions but consider them to be superfluous. I wish you luck should you ever find yourself in Court either as prosecution or defence or if you get into trouble with the taxman!

'Independent Financial Advisors' don't magically change what is available and/or cannot predict what will happen to their own investments never mind anyone elses.

Of course they don't - and they would be both foolhardy and immoral to claim otherwise (indeed, one of them once said to me that if she had a crystal ball she'd sell it to the highest bidder )- but does that make a Tippster a safer bet?

However, if you wish to avail yourself of such a 'service', using your own money, I can assure you that I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever, ahinton!

We're not talking about me and of what services I might or might not wish to avail myself; please therefore stick to the discussion without raising questions about individuals' decisions, especially those of which you have no knowledge.

[ahinton]

(I'm sure there's a clearer way of saying that …)

And a correct one, simply by removing the redundant word "not"! Sorry!