Latest RAJARs

[smittims]

Thanks for posting this link. I've replied in no uncertain terms, as is my wont!

[french frank]

Just noticed this
https://www.theguardian.com/media/20...of-bbc-radio-3

I had an email exchange with the Guardian's Stephen Moss yesterday - so I expected an article soon. He wanted to know the FoR3 view on the drop in figures. I explained that FoR3 had given up the struggle, but as an individual listener I said I hadn't listened for several years because the new programming (Happy Harmonies, Tearjerker &c) were neither classical, jazz nor world music, and I was not interested in them; and that the classical music programmes didn't have the intellectual input that I wanted.

I made it clear that my views were entirely personal, and I recognised that I was in a minority *. The only comment I had to make about the controller was that I had met him several times and I thought there had been interesting speech programmes when he first started. I couldn't imagine what sort of person the BBC would be seeking for his replacement. [I await a telephone call for my advice ]

* I regard myself as a largely insulted and discriminated against minority (I could have added not least by the BBC, but didn't ).

[french frank]

I had an email exchange with the Guardian's Stephen Moss yesterday - so I expected an article soon. He wanted to know the FoR3 view on the drop in figures. I explained that FoR3 had given up the struggle, but as an individual listener I said I hadn't listened for several years because the new programming (Happy Harmonies, Tearjerker &c) were neither classical, jazz nor world music, and I was not interested in them; and that the classical music programmes didn't have the intellectual input that I wanted.

I made it clear that my views were entirely personal, and I recognised that I was in a minority *. The only comment I had to make about the controller was that I had met him several times and I thought there had been interesting speech programmes when he first started. I couldn't imagine what sort of person the BBC would be seeking for his replacement. [I await a telephone call for my advice ]

* I regard myself as a largely insulted and discriminated against minority (I could have added not least by the BBC, but didn't ).

I also said, very fairly I thought, that I had no idea whether the drop in listening figures to their lowest ever level was to do with Radio 3's failing to accept the 20-year arguments of FoR3.

[antongould]

I had an email exchange with the Guardian's Stephen Moss yesterday - so I expected an article soon. He wanted to know the FoR3 view on the drop in figures. I explained that FoR3 had given up the struggle, but as an individual listener I said I hadn't listened for several years because the new programming (Happy Harmonies, Tearjerker &c) were neither classical, jazz nor world music, and I was not interested in them; and that the classical music programmes didn't have the intellectual input that I wanted.

I made it clear that my views were entirely personal, and I recognised that I was in a minority *. The only comment I had to make about the controller was that I had met him several times and I thought there had been interesting speech programmes when he first started. I couldn't imagine what sort of person the BBC would be seeking for his replacement. [I await a telephone call for my advice ]

* I regard myself as a largely insulted and discriminated against minority (I could have added not least by the BBC, but didn't ).

You are an influencer ff…… the only one I’ve ever known ……..

[french frank]

You are an influencer ff…… the only one I’ve ever known ……..

As it happens, a non-influencer though I did my best.

[Hitch]

The BBC doesn't seem to realise it has the best possible asset to attract young people (i.e. teenagers to those in their thirties) to Radio 3: the BBC itself. In former years, TV viewers could pick up a rudimentary knowledge, or at least a vague awareness, of the classical repertoire through osmosis. TV programmes used classical music in their title sequences; Face the Music showed that classical was fun and not something to be feared; and Richard Baker, a well-known and trusted figure, would pop up presenting arts features as well as the evening news. The members here can probably think of other examples whereby the casual viewer of BBC 1 & 2 might have been exposed to classical music.

Is that the case nowadays? I would hope so, but it doesn't seem likely, especially when University Challenge teams seem mostly non-plussed by the classical music round. I would like to see the new Radio 3 boss encourage TV producers to use more art music in their titles and "stings". Quizzes and gameshows are eternally with us - why not have one based on music, and with a reminder that more of the stuff can be heard on Radio 3? Never Mind the Buzzcocks could do with a sister show.

[smittims]

I agree, Hitch. I've said for years that if BBC One televised a Mozart or Haydn symphony every evening at 7.30 people would start to watch and listen and talk about it. The BBc could indeed, 'build an audience for classical music' as Robert Newman said when he founded the Proms.

I'm sure thatthe 'Dumbtime ' programmes are a mistake. I can't see new listeners flocking to them and staying to listen to Monteverdi on 'Through the Night', and I hope the new Controller will see this and adopt a more sensible approach.

[french frank]

I agree, Hitch. I've said for years that if BBC One televised a Mozart or Haydn symphony every evening at 7.30 people would start to watch and listen and talk about it. The BBc could indeed, 'build an audience for classical music' as Robert Newman said when he founded the Proms.

If the Proms actually succeeded in 'creating a new audience' it succeeded, but a combination of the BBC and social change have destroyed that audience by not building up listeners in subsequent generations.

"If BBC One televised a Mozart or Haydn symphone"? No chance. The reason why BBC Two (remember when that was considered the 'highbrow' arts channel?) no longer even broadcasts the 'lighter Proms - they are now on BBC Four - is because the BBC views Two as a popular, mass channel and the Proms don't attract big enough audiences for such a service …

[Old Grumpy]

If the Proms actually succeeded in 'creating a new audience' it succeeded, but a combination of the BBC and social change have destroyed that audience by not building up listeners in subsequent generations.

"If BBC One televised a Mozart or Haydn symphone"? No chance. The reason why BBC Two (remember when that was considered the 'highbrow' arts channel?) no longer even broadcasts the 'lighter Proms - they are now on BBC Four - is because the BBC views Two as a popular, mass channel and the Proms don't attract big enough audiences for such a service …

That'll be the BBC Four about to disappear into the Metaverse, or whatever:(

[french frank]

That'll be the BBC Four about to disappear into the Metaverse, or whatever:(

Yes, that BBC Four. It was never adequately funded which accounted for so much dross (and repeats) filling the airtime. For 2021-22 BBC One had £1.212bn (8p per user hour), BBC Two £327m (9p puh) and BBC Four £22m (4p puh). For comparison, CBBC got £68m at a cost of 33p puh (Annual Report and Accounts 21/22, p. 182).

[DracoM]

Does that mean that the Scandi noirs will disappear?

[Ein Heldenleben]

Does that mean that the Scandi noirs will disappear?

No because from all the rumours I’ve heard BBC 4 isn’t closing. Might go online only though.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yes, that BBC Four. It was never adequately funded which accounted for so much dross (and repeats) filling the airtime. For 2021-22 BBC One had £1.212bn (8p per user hour), BBC Two £327m (9p puh) and BBC Four £22m (4p puh). For comparison, CBBC got £68m at a cost of 33p puh (Annual Report and Accounts 21/22, p. 182).

If you looked at the cost per user hour for minority language programming on S4C and BBC Alba I think you’ll find cost per user hour figures way higher than this.

[french frank]

If you looked at the cost per user hour for minority language programming on S4C and BBC Alba I think you’ll find cost per user hour figures way higher than this.

They are! I just quoted the ones I didn't have to hunt for. The Asian Network (6p) and Radio 1Xtra 's (5p) costs puh are also higher - which is why it seems dubious to quote that figure relating to Radio 3's figure set against the mass audience networks. Radio 3 gets less money than any other of the analogue network stations, less even than Radio 1, but whichever figure which shows Radio 3 in the "worse" light is the one quoted against it as an "expensive" network.

Now I've found them, Radio Wales's cost puh is 9p and Radio Cymru's 12p; BBC Alba is 25p and Radio nan Gàidheal 23p. Radio Scotland costs more in money (£37m, 21p puh) against Radio 3's £34m and 4p).

So neither in terms of millions, nor cost puh is Radio 3 the most expensive service. Its content cost of £34m is actually greater than BBC FOUR's at £22m which highlights even better the pitiful state of music/arts coverage on television. Ofcom said several years ago that the content on the BBC was 'at risk'. It still is.

[Ein Heldenleben]

They are! I just quoted the ones I didn't have to hunt for. The Asian Network (6p) and Radio 1Xtra 's (5p) costs puh are also higher - which is why it seems dubious to quote that figure relating to Radio 3's figure set against the mass audience networks. Radio 3 gets less money than any other of the analogue network stations, less even than Radio 1, but whichever figure which shows Radio 3 in the "worse" light is the one quoted against it as an "expensive" network.

Now I've found them, Radio Wales's cost puh is 9p and Radio Cymru's 12p; BBC Alba is 25p and Radio nan Gàidheal 23p. Radio Scotland costs more in money (£37m, 21p puh) against Radio 3's £34m and 4p).

So neither in terms of millions, nor cost puh is Radio 3 the most expensive service. Its content cost of £34m is actually greater than BBC FOUR's at £22m which highlights even better the pitiful state of music/arts coverage on television. Ofcom said several years ago that the content on the BBC was 'at risk'. It still is.

I once made a programme which worked out at £7 per viewer hour . On the other hand I’ve also made ones for 1p per viewer hour , it’s not a very helpful metric to be honest and it’s not really taken that seriously. There will live Opera relays on R3 which cost £1.00 a listener - whereas Breakfast will be a matter of a few pence. Something is either worth doing or it’s not …