Latest RAJARs

[french frank]

Mortality among listeners, or they just don't like what R3 is doing, and were hoping for someone listening to why, and then gave up when they realised no-one actually was listening, shrugged, defected?

I think you would have to suppose that the mortality rate for elderly Radio 3 listeners was much higher than for the average elderly cohort. Which could also be to do with the Radio 3 programming …

But, back of fag packet: if one takes the figures back to the earliest we have, Jan-Mar 1999 (comparable figures, that is), the latest Q2, at 1.908m was the 6th lowest out of 20. The average/mean is 1.972m and the median 1.986m. Given that over 20 years, variables creep in, one could nevertheless ask whether the deliberate strategy to attract new listeners has resulted in a healthy replenisher audience. The population %age listening to R3 dropped below 3.5% and therefore was recorded at 3%, rather than the customary 4%.

[Lat-Literal]

Oh well, they have broken everything so why should R3 be any different?

It is all very worthy but isn't it a yearning for some past rather than a steer towards a future which is inevitably crass and bleak beyond belief?

[LMcD]

At a time of increasing audience fragmentation when younger people in particular - but not just younger people - are turning away from traditional broadcasters, should we be too worried about the relatively modest decline in Radio 3's listenership? I, for one, listen to as much classical music as I've always done, but less of that listening is to Radio 3. Has the Radio 3 listenership declined to anything like the same extent as that for other BBC radio channels?

[cloughie]

At a time of increasing audience fragmentation when younger people in particular - but not just younger people - are turning away from traditional broadcasters, should we be too worried about the relatively modest decline in Radio 3's listenership? I, for one, listen to as much classical music as I've always done, but less of that listening is to Radio 3. Has the Radio 3 listenership declined to anything like the same extent as that for other BBC radio channels?

I would not be surprised if R3 has declined more than others because in addition to not attracting young listeners it is losing its older listeners through its flawed ‘dumbing down’ morning policy.

[french frank]

At a time of increasing audience fragmentation when younger people in particular - but not just younger people - are turning away from traditional broadcasters, should we be too worried about the relatively modest decline in Radio 3's listenership? I, for one, listen to as much classical music as I've always done, but less of that listening is to Radio 3. Has the Radio 3 listenership declined to anything like the same extent as that for other BBC radio channels?

The most obvious example at the BBC is Radio 2. Its audience has leapt ever since it began attracting the older end of the Radio 1 pop audience and divesting itself of the 'generalist' classical/light orchestral end - an audience now welcomed [sic] at R3. The 6 Music audience is also expanding. R1 is possibly slightly contracting as a direct result - the BBC is providing alternative sources for pop/popular music (1Xtra and the Asian network have also appeared since R1 had the largest BBC Radio audience). R3's broadcasting hours have increased, though the peak listening times have less [no?] music-focused programming for the long-time classical listener, as this is regarded as 'inaccessible' to new listeners.

[DracoM]

The discovery and use of online classical music stations has revolutionised my listening. Generally, I don't speak the presenters' languages, but the music is still the music, and it's the music that I want, not the guff and faff that the BBC feels somehow terrified into / impelled to surround so much of its output formulae eg embarrasingly Y6 Time Traveller bilge / current 'development' of the Proms / playlist quizzes / etc etc.

AND R3 insists so much on presenter-led PR work. And as soon as you try to project them, and make your audience presenter-centred / loyal, the imperfections / idiosyncrasies of that presenter become truly irksome, or can do eg KD / SR for me. E.G: I've just turned off a R4 prog as soon as the name of the presenter was announced - never listened to a word spoken before exiting. Yes, childish, I fully accept, but..............

So, and particularly in my 50s +, this structure has driven me away from R3, ironically having educated me in the genre it purports to project. Like growing up and leaving home...? The other plus is that many of the online stations from other countries have repertoires / composers / ensembles I had literally never heard of, and which have enriched and expanded my experience hugely and for which I am eternally grateful. For me, R3 simply does not now do that to any sustained extent.

Have to mention Classic FM, which is for me where R3 seems frighteningly and inevitably heading - a narrowing of repertoire base leading to an endless, and lazy re-cycling of 'pops', and thus diminishing and reducing the enormous treasures of the genre.

[french frank]

Yes, childish, I fully accept, but..............

Don't agree that it's childish: it's pragmatic. It emphasises that R3 is not "Essential Listening". So you're missing the 'goodies' that are on R3? No argument at all: you gain the goodies that you get from other sources.

If you deliberately choose to listen to radio or watch television, that's fine. But if you choose not to, there are plenty of other alternatives to fill the hours.

[gurnemanz]

Having just listened to Catriona Morison's lovely song recital with Simon Lepper live from Edinburgh, I am moved to comment that some people on here do protest too much about R3 - "decline" , "broken" "dumbing down" etc. R3 has not been exempt from criticism from this corner - bitty presenter-oriented morning schedule, lack of music classical late evening and I frequently retreat to CDs or internet streaming. That is, however, fair enough as far as I'm concerned, since I am aware that what I want is not necessarily the same as what others want. Some fellow human beings of my close acquaintance always listen to Breakfast and actually seem to enjoy it.

[french frank]

Some fellow human beings of my close acquaintance always listen to Breakfast and actually seem to enjoy it.

This is not in doubt. Otherwise no one would listen. But my argument has always been: which comes first - the content or the audience?

Do you fit the content to appeal to a particulat type of listener (who enjoys Breakfast and Essential Classics)? Or do you have a vision of the place Radio 3 should occupy with the BBC's portfolio of music radio stations? Radio 3 has pursued the first course over the second (it seems to me) for 20-odd years, with the result that you may very well hear a good recital at lunchtime or an excellent concert in the evening. But that may not be enough to retain a loyal audience.

"i heard a jolly good programme today," doesn't really answer the fundamental question. What should Radio 3 BE?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Having just listened to Catriona Morison's lovely song recital with Simon Lepper live from Edinburgh, I am moved to comment that some people on here do protest too much about R3 - "decline" , "broken" "dumbing down" etc.

I think that there'd be far fewer such "protests" if there were more programmes such as those from the EIF during the morning schedules, gurne.

[DracoM]

I think that there'd be far fewer such "protests" if there were more programmes such as those from the EIF during the morning schedules, gurne.

[edashtav]

I think that there'd be far fewer such "protests" if there were more programmes such as those from the EIF during the morning schedules, gurne.

[french frank]

Just because it's become a ritual, this morning's RAJARs:

My conclusions, E&OE (Andrew will zoom in to correct me when he has a moment )

• Reach (1.826m) is the lowest Q4 ‘since records began’ (1999)
• Lowest % reach ‘since records began’: 3.34%
• A high average hours per listener; and share remains stable because all radio listening (hours) is down this quarter.
• The Breakfast average (612k) remains relatively buoyant.

On the face of it, it means that the audience for Breakfast (and/or, from what we know, almost certainly Essential Classics too) accounts for the high listening per head – people listening to these programmes for several hours each day. Logically that should mean that the overall lost listeners were the more selective ones who tended to listen to R3 for fewer hours. Which programmes were they listening to?

A surmise would therefore be that Radio 3 is attracting a new audience for the morning (‘light entertainment’) programmes, but losing disproportionately the listeners for the other ‘classical’ programmes. Or, to express it another way, it is having some success in attracting new listeners for the programmes which compete with CFM, but losing listeners for ‘more specialist’ classical programmes. If so, this seems to reflect a trend.

One might also surmise (nothing more!) that with the arrival of Scala Radio, there will be three stations vying for the casual to light classical audience which is not deeply engaged with classical music. (None of this need affect the audiences for jazz or world music; or spoken arts programmes.)

In terms of station strategy and the effect of the incumbent controller, we have seen the same pattern as when RW took over: a honeymoon period when better listening figures coincided with some original new programming; followed by a substantial slump when the direction resumed its ‘chasing new listeners’ strategy: nothing very interesting in the way of new classical programming, a more determined pursuit of the new ‘lighter’ listener – and the continued flight of serious classical enthusiasts.

[Ein Heldenleben]

How do you get hold of the individual programme figures . I thought these were pay per view only ...

[french frank]

How do you get hold of the individual programme figures . I thought these were pay per view only ...

As far as I know, you have to become a subscriber at vast cost; you then have access to a huge amount of data, most of which you don't want. And it isn't that easy to get at what you do want. At FoR3, we never thought it was practical - or worth the money - to subscribe. Even if we'd had the money …

The 'breakfast shows' are the only ones where the figures are published - for national stations e.g. R3. Occasionally some snippets of information are embedded in BBC documents, plus there may be other sources which can be helpful. I understand why the BBC, in particular, isn't keen to release figures. If you take Radio 3, for example, the numbers listening are often so small that a population sample which represents the entire 15+ population doesn't provide reliable results. Though the BBC has them.