Dipping a toe in the water.....

[ardcarp]

One hardly likes to mention the referendum but I wonder if discussion of our being in Europe in relation to The Arts (and especially music) might be legit on these boards?

[Beef Oven!]

One hardly likes to mention the referendum but I wonder if discussion of our being in Europe in relation to The Arts (and especially music) might be legit on these boards?

Wot referendum?

[Bryn]

Wot referendum?

Are there more than one? If so, let's have a considered debate about whether it should be referendums or referenda, (it should, of course, be the former if referring to plebiscites).

[Beef Oven!]

Are there more than one? If so, let's have a considered debate about whether it should be referendums or referenda, (it should, of course, be the former if referring to plebiscites).

Shouldn't we just modernise and go for referendums, stadiums etc (can we keep media please?).

[MrGongGong]

Well, where I am at the moment (which isn't in the UK but is in the EU) folks are saying that if we do leave then the kinds of exchanges that take place now (not necessarily funded by the EU) will simply stop including the UK, visa restrictions and extra £ will make it impossible... a sad loss IMV

We really can't do anything about global economics whatever we vote for, it's not something that we ever have a say in SO encouraging free movement of artists and musicians IS a good thing IMV....

[ardcarp]

My reason for daring to float this topic is that I know several freelance musicians (well, many actually)...some related....who find a lot of work in Europe. Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, even Baltic countries. They seem to have a great deal more funding for musical projects than we do. Hopping back and forth is quite normal for many singers and players. Whilst our being an EU member does not seem to have brought us the same sort of Arts Sponsorship they enjoy over there (why???), having freedom of travel and other benefits of EU citizenship seem to be much prized by itinerant musicians, and the view expressed by the ones I know is that we would be totally nuts to cut our ties with Europe.

Never heard of TTIP, BTW.

[MrGongGong]

My reason for daring to float this topic is that I know several freelance musicians (well, many actually)...some related....who find a lot of work in Europe. Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, even Baltic countries. They seem to have a great deal more funding for musical projects than we do. Hopping back and forth is quite normal for many singers and players. Whilst our being an EU member does not seem to have brought us the same sort of Arts Sponsorship they enjoy over there (why???), having freedom of travel and other benefits of EU citizenship seem to be much prized by itinerant musicians, and the view expressed by the ones I know is that we would be totally nuts to cut our ties with Europe.
.

Exactly

[teamsaint]

My reason for daring to float this topic is that I know several freelance musicians (well, many actually)...some related....who find a lot of work in Europe. Holland, Belgium, France, Germany, even Baltic countries. They seem to have a great deal more funding for musical projects than we do. Hopping back and forth is quite normal for many singers and players. Whilst our being an EU member does not seem to have brought us the same sort of Arts Sponsorship they enjoy over there (why???), having freedom of travel and other benefits of EU citizenship seem to be much prized by itinerant musicians, and the view expressed by the ones I know is that we would be totally nuts to cut our ties with Europe

Never heard of TTIP, BTW.

TTIP is just so important,and that is whether you are pro or anti EU.

it really could change everything .
And it won't be for the better.

And it WILL affect ,in absolutely fundamental ways, those things that many of us hold dear...the NHS, public sevices, the environment, food quality, protection of workers rights and so on and so on.
And no doubt arts subsidies too.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/what-is-ttip-and-six-reasons-why-the-answer-should-scare-you-9779688.html

[Lat-Literal]

One hardly likes to mention the referendum but I wonder if discussion of our being in Europe in relation to The Arts (and especially music) might be legit on these boards?

Certainly the pantomime season has arrived early this year.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Certainly the pantomime season has arrived early this year.

Oh no it hasn't!

[Lat-Literal]

Oh no it hasn't!

[Dave2002]

Re musicians, it's not only EU musicians who experience problems. i know of a cellist who is Japanese, who is not allowed to play, for example in ensembles of which he is a member, while the UK authorities decide whether he can stay or have an appropriate permit. Concerts have been put on in order to raise funds to help him while this is sorted out, one way or the other. I think this situation may have arisen because of a change of rules. His position would, I think, be unaffected by the UK's relationship with the EU, but does illustrate the dampening effect rules and bureaucracy can have on what otherwise seem like worthwile cultural endeavours.

[MrGongGong]

Re musicians, it's not only EU musicians who experience problems. i know of a cellist who is Japanese, who is not allowed to play, for example in ensembles of which he is a member, while the UK authorities decide whether he can stay or have an appropriate permit. Concerts have been put on in order to raise funds to help him while this is sorted out, one way or the other. I think this situation may have arisen because of a change of rules. His position would, I think, be unaffected by the UK's relationship with the EU, but does illustrate the dampening effect rules and bureaucracy can have on what otherwise seem like worthwile cultural endeavours.

This will also have a terrible effect on many musicians and artists working in the UK

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-17204297

BUT the question was about the EU and music, and from all the people who seem to know from "lived experience" who i've come across both in the UK and outside it will have a negative effect. For many of the EU musicians who play in UK orchestras and ensembles life will get much more complicated, these aren't hyper-rich business folks who can afford to employ staff to manage their affairs and I suspect many will simply go and work elsewhere.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

If this thread is going to remain, it's very important that we avoid reference to party politics. That isn't easy, but may be worth the effort in order to keep things going.

[Lat-Literal]

Well, it won't affect the BBC because the EU has no say there at all. That is about regrettable management policy playing into the hands of anti-Corporation ideologues. But I am now reminded of how often artists from far flung corners of the world have not attended Womad because of an inability to obtain permits or visas on time. I would imagine that applies to orchestras etc too and such problems could extend, if we left the EU, to musicians from Europe. It could especially impact adversely on the ones who are new to Europe.