Alphabet Associations - II

[antongould]

Original!

Brilliant as ever cloughers

[vinteuil]

.

I am absolutely content to deride Werther

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... Thackeray, of course, got it right :


Sorrows of Werther

WERTHER had a love for Charlotte
Such as words could never utter;
Would you know how first he met her?
She was cutting bread and butter.

Charlotte was a married lady,
And a moral man was Werther,
And for all the wealth of Indies
Would do nothing for to hurt her.

So he sigh’d and pin’d and ogled,
And his passion boil’d and bubbled,
Till he blew his silly brains out,
And no more was by it troubled.

Charlotte, having seen his body
Borne before her on a shutter,
Like a well-conducted person,
Went on cutting bread and butter.

William Makepeace Thackeray [1811–63]

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[LeMartinPecheur]

.


.

... Thackeray, of course, got it right :


Sorrows of Werther

WERTHER had a love for Charlotte
Such as words could never utter;
Would you know how first he met her?
She was cutting bread and butter.

Charlotte was a married lady,
And a moral man was Werther,
And for all the wealth of Indies
Would do nothing for to hurt her.

So he sigh’d and pin’d and ogled,
And his passion boil’d and bubbled,
Till he blew his silly brains out,
And no more was by it troubled.

Charlotte, having seen his body
Borne before her on a shutter,
Like a well-conducted person,
Went on cutting bread and butter.

William Makepeace Thackeray [1811–63]

.

Great to be reminded of this - really must read the book and/or hear the opera sometime!

[Which tells you that Werther isn't a fruitful path to follow...]

[LMcD]

Sorry - I'm still no further forward! All that comes to mind is wine gums (Sucky sweets > fruit > ?)
EDIT: Sorrows > Lamentations (of Jerusalem) > Tallis?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Sorry - I'm still no further forward! All that comes to mind is wine gums (Sucky sweets > fruit > ?)

I think it'd be satisfactory as a BBC MM cryptic crossword clue. The answer has six letters...

...but rather echoing my original J puzzle, I could add that the clue would not end with '(6)'

EDIT It would fully qualify for BBC MM as the answer is entirely suitable for a Music crossword (but probably too obscure for the Times one!).

EDIT 2 OK, if used in BBC MM it would probably appear as 'Composer content to deride Werther'.

[C'mon, c'mon, I'm doing my best to get this all sorted before Christmas Day!]

[LeMartinPecheur]

Sorry - I'm still no further forward! All that comes to mind is wine gums (Sucky sweets > fruit > ?)
EDIT: Sorrows > Lamentations (of Jerusalem) > Tallis?

LMcD: sorry, Jerusalem is still the only relevant word here. Or Jérusalem: see #2977 again.

[antongould]

So in the context of this question I is the same as J, but Jerusalem is not the same as Jérusalem ...... ?????

[LeMartinPecheur]

Original!

Sorry Cloughie, until I saw anton's reply i'd thought you were saluting an innovation in setting clues on this thread

[LeMartinPecheur]

So in the context of this question I is the same as J, but Jerusalem is not the same as Jérusalem ...... ?????

As I told Pulc, dig further into (Verdi's) Jérusalem itself. Don't waste time chasing Ierusalem.

[vinteuil]

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... I think I've forgotten what we're looking for.

But what I want are 4 related vocal works and their composers, the titles of which do NOT contain the letter J, all for the same reason. (OK pedants, there's maybe one partial exception.) No need to look after 1850, and probably no point before 1581.

Four works the titles of which do not contain the letter J. And they don't contain the letter J "all for the same reason". Is the reason that they are in a language / languages which doesn't / don't have the letter J???

How many composers (other than Verdi) are we looking for? Do the names of these composers begin with J, or do they too not contain the letter J at all??

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[antongould]

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... I think I've forgotten what we're looking for.



Four works the titles of which do not contain the letter J. And they don't contain the letter J "all for the same reason". Is the reason that they are in a language / languages which doesn't / don't have the letter J???

How many composers (other than Verdi) are we looking for? Do the names of these composers begin with J, or do they too not contain the letter J at all??

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These are, as ever, good questions vints

[LeMartinPecheur]

vints: "Four works the titles of which do not contain the letter J. And they don't contain the letter J "all for the same reason". Is the reason that they are in a language / languages which doesn't / don't have the letter J???"
The most relevant language strictly does have the letter J but uses it little. Very warm!

"How many composers (other than Verdi) are we looking for? Do the names of these composers begin with J, or do they too not contain the letter J at all??"
I asked for four works and their composers, out of quite a big field. The presence or absence - it is more likely to be absence - of J in the composers' names isn't relevant. Verdi is the composer I had in mind c.1850 (though nobody's so far quite nailed the absence of J), and my attempts at a cryptic clue point to one entering the field pretty quickly after 1581. There's a fair few more to choose from between these dates - I'll accept any that satisfy the 'same reason' and 'vocal work' tests and the date bracket.

[LMcD]

vints: "Four works the titles of which do not contain the letter J. And they don't contain the letter J "all for the same reason". Is the reason that they are in a language / languages which doesn't / don't have the letter J???"
The most relevant language strictly does have the letter J but uses it little. Very warm!

"How many composers (other than Verdi) are we looking for? Do the names of these composers begin with J, or do they too not contain the letter J at all??"
I asked for four works and their composers, out of quite a big field. The presence or absence - it is more likely to be absence - of J in their names isn't relevant. Verdi is the composer I had in mind c.1850 (though nobody's so far quite nailed the absence of J), and my attempts at a cryptic clue point to one entering the field pretty quickly after 1581. There's a fair few more to choose from between these dates - I'll accept any that satisfy the 'same reason' and 'vocal work' tests and the date bracket.

Eh? Ah! Monteverdi? (Vattene pur, crudel)
Handel, Lully, Scarlatti, Salieri and others composed operas based on Jersualeme Libberata.

[LeMartinPecheur]

Eh? Ah! Monteverdi? (Vattene pur, crudel)
Handel, Lully, Scarlatti, Salieri and others composed operas based on Jersualeme Libberata.

A few operas based on 'Jerusaleme Libberata' (DO check spelling!) will fit the bill but not all. Vints's Wiki listing should indicate why! And the whole field as per Q goes wider.

Monteverdi doesn't quite sneak in but one of one of the others (sic) hits the mark

[LeMartinPecheur]

vints: "Four works the titles of which do not contain the letter J. And they don't contain the letter J "all for the same reason". Is the reason that they are in a language / languages which doesn't / don't have the letter J???"
The most relevant language strictly does have the letter J but uses it little. Very warm!

"How many composers (other than Verdi) are we looking for? Do the names of these composers begin with J, or do they too not contain the letter J at all??"
I asked for four works and their composers, out of quite a big field. The presence or absence - it is more likely to be absence - of J in the composers' names isn't relevant. Verdi is the composer I had in mind c.1850 (though nobody's so far quite nailed the absence of J), and my attempts at a cryptic clue point to one entering the field pretty quickly after 1581. There's a fair few more to choose from between these dates - I'll accept any that satisfy the 'same reason' and 'vocal work' tests and the date bracket.

See recent edit, done to avoid any confusion. The absence of J in the works is of course essential. Surprised Vints hasn't come storming back with answers or at least a big breakthrough: he was very, very warm!