Waterstones - the end in sight?

[Triforium]

The independent book shops were done in by the mega-chains, which were themselves done in by the internet. Now, even with internet ordering, ebooks are taking over. Amazon sold more ebooks last year than "dead tree" books - http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/...an-hardcovers/ and apparently it is accelerating.

It feels as though this all happened so quickly....

[Mandryka]

The independent book shops were done in by the mega-chains, which were themselves done in by the internet. Now, even with internet ordering, ebooks are taking over. Amazon sold more ebooks last year than "dead tree" books - http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/...an-hardcovers/ and apparently it is accelerating.

It feels as though this all happened so quickly....

Yes, but the idea that ultimately became 'ebooks' had been trailered for some time: for most of my lifetime, people were hypothesising about the day when 'dead tree' books would die. Hst, I think the dead tree book - like vinyl - will be with us for some time yet, albeit mainly as the preserve of young eccentrics and old fuddy-duddies (speaking as a fully paid-up member of the latter).

[Bax-of-Delights]

Hatchards is indeed a branch of Waterstones but because of its Royal Supplier status - I think it has the coat of arms on the outside of the shop - it has managed to evade the corporate dumbing of the rest of the Waterstones empire. And, correct me if I'm wrong, not one of the books in Hatchards is discounted.

By chance I visited Waterstones, Canterbury yesterday and found a similar sad appearance of the stock. Face-outs to fill up shelves, gaps on the platforms, same titles appearing in three different parts of the shop, the poor staff having to wear the grotesque corporate purple T-shirts - a device which paradoxically runs totally counter to the message they bear "we're here to help" - one can only assume that the writing is on the wall.
Waterstones invested some millions of pounds in a "hub" distribution system a couple of years ago and which has spectacularly failed as many of the Waterstone staff will attest. It was designed to funnel all orders from the branches to the publishers and the stock from the publishers to the branches to avoid unnecessary duplication of ordering and stock movements. All it did was to slow everything down, hence customers being told 2 weeks for supply of special orders.

I predict at least a severe pruning of the branch system and even then one suspects that other economic forces are at work which will make this kind of bookshop unviable. There are rumours that a Russian oligarch may well put in an offer for Waterstones but one suspects he is holding off until HMV are in such a bad state that he can pick up the bookshops in a fire sale.
Meanwhile Waterstones are once again going cap in hand to the publishers asking for more discount - they already receive probably 20% higher discount over and above the independent booksellers - arguing that if they go down they will take a lot of publishers with them (a not unliklely scenario).

Be prepared for a revolution in publishing/bookselling/reading in the next 3-5 years.

[umslopogaas]

I'm going to exempt myself from the "we're all guilty" charge. I was a regular customer of my local Waterstones and always found the staff to be very friendly and helpful. If they didnt have it they'd order it and give you a ring when it arrived. I was very shocked a month or two ago when they were abruptly closed down at just a week's notice. They had to refund me some money I'd put up for some books on order. I felt so sorry for the staff who had to go looking for another job in short order, and there are no other book stores in town apart from Smiths, which doesnt really count.

Personally, I never buy on line. I hate using credit cards under any circumstances and am particularly averse to giving out details to people I've never met (and may not even exist). I like actual shops with actual people, who will still accept the cash I just got out of the hole in the wall. I am glad to hear that Heffers in Cambridge is still there, it was the best bookstore in town when I was a student there in the early seventies.

I appreciate that there are savings to be made by shopping on line, but hey, the savings on your average book are not huge in terms of actual cash and I'm happy to pay a bit more for a real shop with real people who will have a chat, and probably point you at other titles of interest.

[Flosshilde]

I'm with Suffolkcoastal in wanting to browse through a selection of books on the subject I'm interested in, but unfortunately the Waterstone's in Glasgow have a very poor art stock (it used to be better). Borders were much better - it's a pity the Glasgow branch, which was one of the profitable ones, couldn't have been kept open. The site, a very prominent one in the up-market shopping street, is now empty except for the ground floor, which was taken on by the All Saints clothes store, itself 'rescued' from bankruptcy & closure recently. Oddbins is another chain that has recently been (partly) 'rescued'.

There are going to be many more retail businesses going bust, & empty sites on the high street, as the effects of the recesion & internet shopping bite.

[StephenO]

I try to buy from our local independent bookshop when I can (it also sells CDs and coffee and it has an excellent ordering service) but the last time I went in the shelves were pretty empty. Hope it's not the beginning of the end for it.

Like others, I'm afraid Amazon is rapidly becoming my first port of call.

[tsuji-giri]

I'd be sorry to see them go, although I am at least within easy reach of Blackwells in Oxford which must surely be among the top 3 UK bookshops if it isn't actually the best. (Incidentally they still do a record shop too).
However Oxford has lost the celebrated Thorntons second-hand bookshop, which is now, amazingly, a hotel. I bought a copy of Confucius 'The Analects' there for 10p simply to prove that I'd been up the spiral stairs all the way to the very top floor.

[MarkG]

My local Ottakar's was taken over by Waterstones who promptly closed it. Two enterprising ex-Waterstones employees started up a small independent bookshop locally which is still going despite some financial troubles.

[teamsaint]

Hatchards is indeed a branch of Waterstones but because of its Royal Supplier status - I think it has the coat of arms on the outside of the shop - it has managed to evade the corporate dumbing of the rest of the Waterstones empire. And, correct me if I'm wrong, not one of the books in Hatchards is discounted.

By chance I visited Waterstones, Canterbury yesterday and found a similar sad appearance of the stock. Face-outs to fill up shelves, gaps on the platforms, same titles appearing in three different parts of the shop, the poor staff having to wear the grotesque corporate purple T-shirts - a device which paradoxically runs totally counter to the message they bear "we're here to help" - one can only assume that the writing is on the wall.
Waterstones invested some millions of pounds in a "hub" distribution system a couple of years ago and which has spectacularly failed as many of the Waterstone staff will attest. It was designed to funnel all orders from the branches to the publishers and the stock from the publishers to the branches to avoid unnecessary duplication of ordering and stock movements. All it did was to slow everything down, hence customers being told 2 weeks for supply of special orders.

I predict at least a severe pruning of the branch system and even then one suspects that other economic forces are at work which will make this kind of bookshop unviable. There are rumours that a Russian oligarch may well put in an offer for Waterstones but one suspects he is holding off until HMV are in such a bad state that he can pick up the bookshops in a fire sale.
Meanwhile Waterstones are once again going cap in hand to the publishers asking for more discount - they already receive probably 20% higher discount over and above the independent booksellers - arguing that if they go down they will take a lot of publishers with them (a not unliklely scenario).

Be prepared for a revolution in publishing/bookselling/reading in the next 3-5 years.

Good discounts for independent booksellers are easily available..publishers are falling over themselves to shift stock at the moment.

Clearly HMV is taking all the cash it can out of Waterstones at present...but this can't continue for long. I no one comes in with s sensible bid for the chain(which is still profitable) then I suspect that HMV group will do some nifty footwork to shift the unprofitable stores.

meanwhile, the future for high st book selling looks tricky.ebook sales will continue to nibble away at volumes.I actually think there is a future on the high st ...but the retailers are going to have to be very cute. Locations and rents need to be carefully chosen..ranges need to concentrate on the high margin markets..and non book offerings are here to stay, but need to fit within the overall ethos of a bookstore.
my guess is that we will see a decently profitable but much reduced waterstones, (maybe 200 stores,) and perhaps some decent opportunities for indies to come back into some towns.
hope so.

[Ian Thumwood]

There are still two Waterstones in Winchester and the independent bookshop P & G Wells which generally serves the College is still going. When I popped into town last weekend, there was a reduced amount of books on display in the Waterstones in the High Street and I noticed more space given to Kindles as well as other non-book related stands. P & G Wells also publish books and it is good that they have survived. They publuished a brilliant guide to Winchester last year which is about the most comprehensive record of the archtecture in the city I've seen. Can't be a building the author has missed! I used to order a lot of books from them as the service was very helpful and much less machine-like than Waterstones. I found the same with another indpendent bookshop in Marlborough when I worked their around 2001 - excellent service and able to give discounts on selected titles. Haven't been to this town for ages to know if he was still going but I thought he was very amenable.

Until a coupe of years ago, there was also a Sussex Bookshop which undercut everyone with bestsellers and even managed to compete against Amazon. This has now closed which is a shame as I used them a lot to buy presents as everyone reads in my family. The only disadvantage was if you wanted something obscure but the history section was generally good enough to find titles that appealed to my father.

[Triforium]

I was sad when Mowbray's went.

[amateur51]

My local Ottakar's was taken over by Waterstones who promptly closed it. Two enterprising ex-Waterstones employees started up a small independent bookshop locally which is still going despite some financial troubles.

Good news about the new indie, MarkG - give them a plug here so those of us who like bookshops can support them too

[amateur51]

Good discounts for independent booksellers are easily available..publishers are falling over themselves to shift stock at the moment.

Clearly HMV is taking all the cash it can out of Waterstones at present...but this can't continue for long. I no one comes in with s sensible bid for the chain(which is still profitable) then I suspect that HMV group will do some nifty footwork to shift the unprofitable stores.

meanwhile, the future for high st book selling looks tricky.ebook sales will continue to nibble away at volumes.I actually think there is a future on the high st ...but the retailers are going to have to be very cute. Locations and rents need to be carefully chosen..ranges need to concentrate on the high margin markets..and non book offerings are here to stay, but need to fit within the overall ethos of a bookstore.
my guess is that we will see a decently profitable but much reduced waterstones, (maybe 200 stores,) and perhaps some decent opportunities for indies to come back into some towns.
hope so.

Thanks for a bit of the inside track, teamsaint.

I'm a big fan of Daunt books who seem to be trying to be what Waterstones were originally. Well-stocked with interesting books, nice surroundings, good locations, fast ordering service, friendly & knowledgeable staff - good luck to them

http://www.dauntbooks.co.uk/

[barber olly]

Thanks for a bit of the inside track, teamsaint.

I'm a big fan of Daunt books who seem to be trying to be whsat Waterstones wrere originally. Well-stocked with interesting books, nice surroundings, good locations, fast ordering service, friendly & knowledgeable staff - good luck to them

http://www.dauntbooks.co.uk/

I would guess no new store planned in Camborne or Penzance!

[Chris Newman]

When I came to Salisbury 35 years ago it had a fine spread of new and second-hand bookshops. Salisbury gave birth to Ottakers, indeed having two branches and the head office for a while until Waterstones swallowed them and the service with it. There was Beach's, a rambling gem of a second-hand book shop in an ancient timbered shop near the Cathedral, W H Smith, The Everyman Book Shop and several small ones like Travis and Emery (the specialist music shop happily still running in Cecil Court, London). Now the large Smiths is Waterstones (strange to see the huge clock on top of Waterstones advertises WH Smith): Smiths have moved into a shopping mall. Ottakers is no more. SPCK has died, though there is still a small religious book shop. All the second-hand shops have died except for Oxfam which is managed ironically by the former owner of several Second hand book shops. I blame our use of the River People and the spread of Kindle. The Waterstones seems to survive and is well stocked but has suddenly and annoyingly caught the terrible disease prevalent at its South Coast branches where the staff attack you in desparation as you enter. I have pointed out, to no avail, that I find this as offensive as those tailors who rush at you (a la "Suit you, Sir?") with the brass end of the tape measure ready to cut off your blood supply. When it happens I turn tail and leave. Browsing is one of life's pleasures.