Waterstones - the end in sight?

[vinteuil]

scottycelt - quite seriously - I do not know what you mean by "secular liberalism". Could you explain, perhaps with a specific example?

[Don Basilio]

Don, Scotty was educated by the Jesuits.

The proponents of liberation theology, surely?

[scottycelt]

scottycelt - quite seriously - I do not know what you mean by "secular liberalism". Could you explain, perhaps with a specific example?

I mean what I assume everyone else means by 'secular liberalism', vinteuil. As we all seem to be 'liberal' Guardian readers around here the following article does illustrate the divide between that and traditional Christian belief.

There have been numerous examples of that rift in recent decades, most obviously over abortion and homosexuality.

I'm genuinely astonished that you appear to have been unaware of these major social developments ...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2010/apr/29/clegg-disestablishment-church-england

[Flosshilde]

So, by 'secular liberalism', you mean the belief that religion, the various churches or other religious institutions, and religious belief, should not determine legislation (or, more specifically, based on what the article says, that denominational schools should be 'more inclusive' & CofE bishops shouldn't sit in the Lords)

Actually, I'm not sure why that should be specifically 'secular' - I think that there might be quite a few religionists who support those ideas.

Oh, & I assume that by citing an article that supports these ideas you support them yourself? (just using your searing logic)

[vinteuil]

traditional Christian belief.

... ah, but then it depends what you mean by 'traditional christian belief'.

S Thomas Aquinas wouldn't have objected to contraception or early abortion, because he didn't believe the soul was implanted in the foetus until quite a bit later...

Various scholars have adduced evidence of homosessual marriage in the mediaeval church (I have my doubts about this, but moving on... )

Surely one great attribute of the Romish tradition is that the Holy Spirit is evolving in its revelation - not everything is set in the fixed parchment of a few selected Scriptures - but rather mother Church under the sway of the Spirit can find out new ways of being - so we shd beware of relying on "traditional" Christian belief...

[scottycelt]

So, by 'secular liberalism', you mean the belief that religion, the various churches or other religious institutions, and religious belief, should not determine legislation (or, more specifically, based on what the article says, that denominational schools should be 'more inclusive' & CofE bishops shouldn't sit in the Lords)

Actually, I'm not sure why that should be specifically 'secular' - I think that there might be quite a few religionists who support those ideas.

Oh, & I assume that by citing an article that supports these ideas you support them yourself? (just using your searing logic)

Thanks to my evil and sinister Jesuitical upbringing, I was most careful to use the vitally important 'traditional' in front of 'Christian' which, of course, you predictably failed to spot, Flossie ...

Now, I really think we should get back to the subject of Waterstones, don't you, as this thread is rapidly heading down the old, familiar time-wasting cul-de-sac?

[scottycelt]

... ah, but then it depends what you mean by 'traditional christian belief'.

S Thomas Aquinas wouldn't have objected to contraception or early abortion, because he didn't believe the soul was implanted in the foetus until quite a bit later...

Various scholars have adduced evidence of homosessual marriage in the mediaeval church (I have my doubts about this, but moving on... )

Surely one great attribute of the Romish tradition is that the Holy Spirit is evolving in its revelation - not everything is set in the fixed parchment of a few selected Scriptures - but rather mother Church under the sway of the Spirit can find out new ways of being - so we shd beware of relying on "traditional" Christian belief...

Yes, I have my grave doubts about the point of this current side-discussion and will therefore searingly logically move on as well, vinteuil ...

[Flosshilde]

As Vinteul has so lucidly set out, 'tradional' Christian belief is a rather slippery concept (as is 'traditional' anything). One has to define whose traditions first - there are (I think) 4 major strands of christianity at the moment, & they all have their particular 'traditions'. That's before we get on to other religions.

But I'm not sure why you are so keen to make a distinction between 'traditional' christian beliefs & any other christian beliefs in this context.

If you want to talk about Waterstone's nobody is stopping you. I did make a response to Frenchie's last message, & said that I hoped the new regime would support Scottish publishing more. I know you don't live here, but I would think that that might be a topic you have some thoughts on?

[scottycelt]

But I'm not sure why you are so keen to make a distinction between 'traditional' christian beliefs & any other christian beliefs in this context.

It was a desperately cunning attempt on my part to pre-empt the point you ended up making to me anyway, Floss.

It (the desperately cunning attempt) proved therefore to be yet another miserable failure ...

As for Waterstones and Scottish publishing, I have no opinion on that particular subject, 'liberal' or 'traditional'.