Dishwasher tablets - getting the balance right - phosphates

[Dave2002]

Don't you think anyone prepared food before dishwashers were invented?

Of course, but some people had servants to do it. Others spent a lot of time on cooking and washing and washing up, and (arguably) not doing productive work or enjoying themselves. Some people had sandwiches, some opened tins. There were many variations of "easy to prepare" food - anyone remember Smash, or Knorr soups? Some people don't cook - they eat out, or eat in work canteens, or get other people to do the cooking for them. Some people buy take away food on their way to or from work - snacks - and eat those, so they don't need to wash plates etc., simply dump their litter in railway carriages or on the roads.
Some people do a lot of cooking for others, so the size of the "problem" which you seem to be trying to diminish, increases considerably.

There are many options.

[Anna]

One of them did pack up at an inconvenient time, and we stacked up all the plates etc. on the floor until we ordered and had a new one installed.

So, rather than wash up by hand you stacked dirty dishes, plates, bowls, glasses, on the floor until you had a new dishwasher? <shakes head in bafflement emoticom>

I think it was Mrs. Beeton who said "clear up as you go" and that maxim works extremely well. I cook, from fresh, every day, (ok I don't use a processor or mixer which does generate extra bowls, whisks, etc., and I don't have three courses) but I'm never left with enough dirty plates and utensils for it to cause a problem.

[french frank]

So, rather than wash up by hand you stacked dirty dishes, plates, bowls, glasses, on the floor until you had a new dishwasher? <shakes head in bafflement emoticom>

If you have plenty of hot water and washing up liquid, the dishes and utensils take no time at all to wash up.

Like you, Anna, I cook fresh every day (at least 3 courses at the main meal) and I make my own lasagne from scratch (not the pasta, but all the rest), my own pizza from scratch, and there's plenty of empty time in between to wash up - but if you don't actually enjoy the preparation and cooking, I suppose it could all be a bit of a bind.

In our house it was always the custom to have everything washed up before we sat down to eat.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

In our house it was always the custom to have everything washed up before we sat down to eat.

Oh - not quite "everything" (at least not every time): some pots/dishes benefit from a little soaking whilst you enjoy the meal, and then when you ...






I'm doing it again!

[french frank]

I'm doing it again!

I think this thread is capping "Bathroom Scales" as Hot Topic …

[David-G]

I use powder, with dishwasher salt and rinse-aid, because I can then regulate the dose more easily.
Although some supermarket own brands claimed to be as good as the top brand (whatever that was!) I found that not to be the case, and reverted to Classic Finish.

I have a Siemens dishwasher which my mother bought about 10 years ago. It is still going fine. My mother, following discussion with John Lewis, was always insistent on using Finish Classic tablets. I never quite discovered what was the reason for this, but it was my impression that more "modern" tablets might in some way be bad for a machine of this vintage. So I continued using Finish Classic. In recent months, however, they seem to have been unavailable at Waitrose. So I tried the brave step of using a different tablet, and have been using Waitrose Essential tablets, which have proved entirely satisfactory. I just hope that they are not doing some damage to my machine which I am unaware of.

So, two questions for you knowledgeable people:

1. Was this idea of needing Classic tablets for an old machine an old wives tale, or is there something in it? What was/is special about Classic tablets?

2. Is Finish Classic still available anywhere?

[Anna]

I make my own lasagne from scratch (not the pasta, but all the rest)

Doesn't everyone? What other sort of lasagne there?

In our house it was always the custom to have everything washed up before we sat down to eat.

Exactly - plenty of time whilst things are cooking in the over and/or on the hob.

I should say I did have a (slimline) Hotpoint dishwasher because at the time I thought it was the thing to have but eventually, when it went wrong beyond repair, it was never replaced as I realised it totally unnecessary

[Dave2002]

So, rather than wash up by hand you stacked dirty dishes, plates, bowls, glasses, on the floor until you had a new dishwasher? <shakes head in bafflement emoticom>

I think it was Mrs. Beeton who said "clear up as you go" and that maxim works extremely well. I cook, from fresh, every day, (ok I don't use a processor or mixer which does generate extra bowls, whisks, etc., and I don't have three courses) but I'm never left with enough dirty plates and utensils for it to cause a problem.

As I recall, there was more to it than that. The dishwasher did not pack up after a normal day, but after a rather large number of people had been - but I suppose you'd say that was even worse. We also had other things to do. There were special circumstances.

Of course we don't like having a lot of dirty plates hanging around, but at that time it was, arguably, the best option - and I don't suppose we are talking about truly fithy plates etc. anyway.

I admire the cook from fresh approach, though it has limitations unless you want to spend a lot of time on that. We do that too, but we also freeze several portions for use later on - which cuts down on the average work load and mess every day. You may be right about gadgets and kitchen "aids" - but we do have mixers, liquidisers etc., which get used regularly and frequently. Bread making - probably several times a week - does create bowls which require soaking, before being hand washed and then put through the dishwasher to finish off.

I believe that dishwashers use less water than (thorough and effective) hand washing, and may even be more energy efficient.

My guess is that relatively few people have time to spend on cooking each day. I've already suggested ways in which they survive. Just because you find that you don't generate sufficent washing up to be a problem for you does not mean that everyone is in the same situation, nor that there aren't many people who can't or shouldn't use a dishwasher.

Dishwashers are tools which help many with daily living, and I think many people do find them both helpful and useful.

PS: Soime of us do make our own fresh lasagne as well - I mean the sheets, not the whole recipes. Actually we can, and do sometimes, but normally we don't, but one of our friends does it more frequently. Normally we do cheat, and use bought dried pasta - like many people who actually bother to cook, I think.

[Dave2002]

I have a Siemens dishwasher which my mother bought about 10 years ago. It is still going fine. My mother, following discussion with John Lewis, was always insistent on using Finish Classic tablets. I never quite discovered what was the reason for this, but it was my impression that more "modern" tablets might in some way be bad for a machine of this vintage. So I continued using Finish Classic. In recent months, however, they seem to have been unavailable at Waitrose. So I tried the brave step of using a different tablet, and have been using Waitrose Essential tablets, which have proved entirely satisfactory. I just hope that they are not doing some damage to my machine which I am unaware of.

So, two questions for you knowledgeable people:

1. Was this idea of needing Classic tablets for an old machine an old wives tale, or is there something in it? What was/is special about Classic tablets?

2. Is Finish Classic still available anywhere?

There are a whole lot of variables here. Firstly, well done in having a machine which has lasted 10 years. Some of them don't last that long, though a good make - e.g Bosch, Siemens, Miele can go 10 - 20 years.

Secondly, I think the tablet manufacturers keep changing the "recipes" anyway, so just sticking with one brand is not necessarily going to have the same effect at different time points. There may well be a move to reduce phosphates in tablets, which reduces cleaning effectiveness, though some makers are working on products which give good or acceptable results with lower phosphate content.

I'm not sure whether this might answer your specific question - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B002SPH0R...creative=22110 about Finish Classic.

If you have access to Which reports you can find out more, though the results do change from year to year. I doubt whether there was any very strong reason to use Finish tablets, though there can be differences between tablets, and has been noted, some people use powder. Some branded tablets - Fairy, Finish are more expensive. Currently I tihnk the Fairy ones are the top recommendation, but some cheaper ones are also very effective.

If dishwashers are used every day there could be a cost saving of up to £80 over a year between buying expensive tablets at full price, and the cheap ones from stores such as Lidl and Aldi. However, in practice the saving would be less, because not everyone uses the dishwasher every day, and the branded tablets can sometimes be obtained at substantial price reductions. Less than half price is worth waiting for for branded tablets. Full price might be 30p or even more, which is arguably excessive.

Target prices might be 15p/tablet for branded ones, and under 10p/tablet for supermarket or other tablets, which would probably only give a differential of £20 or less over a year.

It's arguably a good idea to run a dishwasher using a dishwasher cleaner from time to time - not just simply keep running it in the regular way.
Also, running a hot wash - e.g pots and pans wash periodically may also help to keep the machine clean.

However, sometimes being aggressive about cleaning equipment may be counter productive. We have had kettles which worked quite well until they scaled up a bit, and then we used scale remover, and then they leaked.

[jean]

Oh - not quite "everything"...

The plates you're eating off have to wait until you've eaten off them, as a rule.