Overkill

[Serial_Apologist]

...quite so kb, your last two para' being particularly relevant....I'm just reading a book about E M Forster and his being trapped /unable to express himself....I think your whole post brings my thoughts on DB clear to me....I would only put one or two DB tracks in my top 500, I didn't get carried away by his work. I knew he was clever, I was scared by his androgeneity, I knew was widely influential ( I'm talking 1970's), but I didn't want any of his records (I was a King Crimson and Matching Mole devotee ++ jazz rock)

....Mary C ....I remember when Lou Reed died, you had not heard of him either....oh well no problem....but it does remind me of a thread I'd like to start Ref: What People Really Do Do in Their Spare Time....(say in the evenings)

Was Bowie on telly much? I never watched TOTP, and the Old Grey Whistle Test was before I had a TV. There were many trends of Prog and art rock to follow in the 70s, and like you Eighth I was more into the Canterbury scene, seeing as it was (like KC) jazzier than Yes, Floyd or Bowie, with more improvisational freedom, and not in hoc to either American fusion or the German synth stuff.

I have no wish to question those on this and the Bowie thread who hold him in high esteem - like Ian Thumwood on here I'm at a disadvantage in lacking the right critical wherewithals for assessing Bowie's achievement. What has one to go on other than the huge media reaction? Do people who welcomed his androgenous persona as reassurance for some under the shadow of their own difference see this reaction as some kind of collective apologia, redressing years of finger-poking at people for not, to judge by outward appearances, fitting the way the establishment and much of then-conservative public thinking deemed socially acceptable roles and lifestyles? If so one can understand not wanting to be left out (yet again!) in celebrating such a mindset turnaround in the mass opinion shaping media.

Contrary to what is sometimes being said in this discussion, when it came to using flamboyance to question gender-stereotyping Bowie was by no means the first, as anyone who has watched 1960s episodes of TOTP or footage of 1967 "the summer of love" will know. Much as been said in the most positive terms of his ability to change his persona as if this were some outer manifestation of inner spiritual development, but I have to say I find this questionable; Bowie was certainly never in hock to the fashion ephemera he lived through, and sartorially he never set general public trends - go to work looking like that? - but neither did he question the consumerist assumptions underlying the notions of personal change of the outward kind which as an elite rock star he could advocate for himself; and it is these aspects of the Bowie phenomenon that I find the most troubling.

[Beef Oven!]

To whom? I’m sure Christopher Hogwood’s death meant nothing whatsoever to most people on earth. What’s the difference?

I don't know the answer to either of those questions. But, I would hazard a guess that Bowie dwarfed Christopher Hogwood in terms of dynamic talent (as much as I adore Hogwood's music-making).

If David Bowie had such massive influence on society, should he be blamed for some of the prevailing modern ills of which we are aware today? Or was his influence all virtuous?

I haven't made any claims about Bowie's influence on society, or even thought too much about it - other people are better placed to answer that.

David Bowie passed by two generations of this household and I cannot honestly say we feel we have missed something we shouldn't (of course one does not know how important something that one missed).

And you don't make a meal of it

Anybody remember Bye Bye Birdie?

I think I'm too young?

[oddoneout]

It's been interesting reading all this not least because the overkill seems to have passed me by. I heard the announcement of his death, but the radio is firmly stuck on R3, I don't watch TV news, and only occasionally buy a paper(and then the local not a national)so the rest didn't impinge.
For some I suspect that part of the apparent over-reaction is that old problem of facing our own mortality. DB didn't die young, so those who have grown up with him so to speak will be facing the fact that there's way more behind them than ahead in terms of anno domini - although for some lucky ones not necessarily in terms of achievement, happiness etc.

[David-G]

From time to time it is brought home to me that the way I perceive the world is not the way most other people see it. Yesterday was such a time. I knew the name David Bowie and remembered, when I was young, hearing a song of his about spacemen – but that was it. I had no idea what he had done since and I do not say that for effect, I genuinely could not tell you why he is so famous. (A look at Wikipedia told me that he did a lot but evidently it all passed me by.) So when it became apparent on his death that he clearly meant so much to so many people, it came as a shock to me to realise that I could not connect in any way with what people were discussing. It was a moment when I felt apart.

I am in a very similar situation. You have expressed it well.

[Bryn]

I wonder whether we have a couple of High Court Judges here. I am genuinely surprised that even if David Bowie's 'pop' career passed some contributors by, they also failed to notice his acting roles too:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/dvdextras/2010/10/cracked_actor.html

[P. G. Tipps]

I am in a very similar situation. You have expressed it well.

Wallace expressed it extremely well.

On Monday, BBC News24 and Sky News virtually reported nothing else, at least when I checked on both at various times of the day. I should have known better. For those who desire proper and extensive news reporting Al Jazeera is the place to go, imo. I had temporarily forgotten that or maybe I was just mesmerised by some of the extraordinary claims being made about the newly-deceased. Mr Bowie was obviously very clever in his chosen field and clearly intelligent and commercially savvy. I suspect he might have howled with laughter if he knew what might be said about him when he passed away.

Sky News, in its typically tasteful manner, even organised a 'snap poll of viewers' on Monday and claimed the reults showed that 63% of them 'agreed that Mr Bowie was the greatest British artist of the 20th Century'. I kid you not. Others interviewed, mostly middle-aged or elderly, all seemed to make the extraordinary claim that Mr Bowie had influenced all our lives. Well, that's interesting to know as I, for one, had no idea that he had any effect on my life whatsoever, however brilliant an artist he may have been. I certainly have never worn make-up, dressed in ladies' clothes, or allegedly been found in bed with Mick Jagger. Maybe I missed out. I did like Space Oddity though ... some of Mr Bowie's output was refreshingly and undeniably different from all the usual pop stuff in the Sixties & Seventies.

Even as I type this one kind sibling in Glasgow has just sent me the following by email presumably as part of her own tribute. At least it's different too ... and some nice shots of the glorious Kelvingrove Art Gallery where I was once ejected as a boy for the horrendous offence of deliberately ignoring a public notice and 'touching a cabinet'.

Ah, happy memories!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd8vdjUaAik&feature=youtu.be

[Beef Oven!]

I wonder whether we have a couple of High Court Judges here. I am genuinely surprised that even if David Bowie's 'pop' career passed some contributors by, they also failed to notice his acting roles too:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/d...ked_actor.html

What's a skateboard!!!!!!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I knew the name David Bowie and remembered, when I was young, hearing a song of his about spacemen – but that was it. I had no idea what he had done since and I do not say that for effect, I genuinely could not tell you why he is so famous.

I suspect this applies to at least half the population.

[kernelbogey]

What's a skateboard!!!!!!

The daily 'fish specials' at the Caprice, m'lud .

[ardcarp]

What's a skateboard!!!!!!

...and would you wish your wife or your your servants to have one?

[kernelbogey]

...and would you wish your wife or your your servants to have one?

Only if appropriately decorated with daisies....

[doversoul1]

I wonder whether we have a couple of High Court Judges here. I am genuinely surprised that even if David Bowie's 'pop' career passed some contributors by, they also failed to notice his acting roles too:

http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/d...ked_actor.html

Why is it a surprise? Films pass by many people’s lives in a similar way as ‘pop’ does.

[Mary Chambers]

Why is it a surprise? Films pass by many people’s lives in a similar way as ‘pop’ does.

Most of them pass me by, though I do like the occasional film.

I've been dumbfounded to discover how many care about Bowie, including people whose opinions I respect. I really had no idea. It has shocked me to discover how far from the apparent norm I am - or has it all been cooked up by the media?

Why is it that so many people know about him, and so few know about Schubert, whose songs speak for all people and time? Is it just publicity, or are Schubert's songs genuinely harder to understand?

[cloughie]

Why is it a surprise? Films pass by many people’s lives in a similar way as ‘pop’ does.

Quite so. Whilst I can show interest across many music genres my interest in films is very low - also there seems to be an assumption that an interest in 'serious' music is coupled to the arts generally - personally I can take or leave a lot of it - as for celebrities - how often did I ask the question who?
With Bowie - has done more than sufficient to leave his mark and whilst I've never been a No1 fan - I like quite a bit of what he did. He evolved from good 60s influences and he led changes rather that jumping on bandwagons.

[cloughie]

Most of them pass me by, though I do like the occasional film.

I've been dumbfounded to discover how many care about Bowie, including people whose opinions I respect. I really had no idea. It has shocked me to discover how far from the apparent norm I am - or has it all been cooked up by the media?

Why is it that so many people know about him, and so few know about Schubert, whose songs speak for all people and time? Is it just publicity, or are Schubert's songs genuinely harder to understand?

1 Schubert has not been adding to his repertoire for the last 48years, when Bowie hit the scene.
2 His songs are usually sung in German - however well they sound, and the tunes are great - language can be a barrier.
3 I have listened to more Schubert than Bowie in the last 48 years but most of that has been orchestral, chamber and piano - not his songs, although I do like An die musik!