Overkill

[french frank]

I was somewhat surprised to see (first time ever?) that the BBC News website had a funereal, white-on-black headline. And this is not completely a generational thing: I felt the other thread was quite the wrong place to admit that I had never (knowingly) heard a David Bowie song. Maybe I am a generation too old? The one video I clicked on to expand my inadequate education was abandoned with the thought Same old, same old rock rhythm and a voice that didn't strike me as out of the ordinary. So where was the magic? The looks? the style? the image?

Yes, a global phenomenon - but why? Social phenomena of this kind probably started with the Beatles and are currently demonstrated by Harry Potter, Star Wars and Justin Bieber: they catch something in the human imagination at a particular moment, sometimes generational (Bieber), sometimes not. I think there was something similar (but not as big) with the death of Freddie Mercury - again, someone whose work had passed me by.

[jean]

Maybe I am a generation too old?

I'm sure I am.

It does seem remarkable how many from...er...other musical traditions held him in high regard.

Twelve pages in today's Guardian. But I didn't buy it.

(I can see the point of Freddie Mercury, though.)

[Once Was 4]

I'm sure I am.

It does seem remarkable how many from...er...other musical traditions held him in high regard.

Twelve pages in today's Guardian. But I didn't buy it.

(I can see the point of Freddie Mercury, though.)

Well, I went to visit my 92-year-old Aunt this morning and she asked "who the heck was that man!" Of course it is tragic when anybody dies of cancer - I have seen it in my own family more than once and I mean no disrespect. But the current Prime Minister's statement was as bad as that by Tony Blair when he said that the "greatest contribution to society of the 20th century was the Fender guitar" (probably not totally accurate quote - sorry). Really!!!!

[Anna]

Same old, same old rock rhythm and a voice that didn't strike me as out of the ordinary. So where was the magic? The looks? the style? the image?

Where to begin? Robert Peston has just put it thus and has chosen him as his most influential Briton: His influence wasn't limited to music, fashion and art. He moved the political and social dial on acceptance of sexual and gender difference in a real, progressive and profound way. What I love about Bowie - - is that he never stopped reinventing himself and challenging us.

And I shelled out £1.80 for the Guardian today just for that 12 page Bowie supplement. I wouldn't have done that for Freddie Mercury who was ok whereas Bowie was unique, a genius.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm sure I am.

It does seem remarkable how many from...er...other musical traditions held him in high regard.

Twelve pages in today's Guardian. But I didn't buy it.

(I can see the point of Freddie Mercury, though.)

Me too.

For me the whole Glam thing was a bit of a diversion from the class struggle - Queen too, quite frankly - and after briefly flirting with prog (Cor - that ceiling rose is amazing, perceived from this pile of cushions through this nicely rolled bit of Moroccan Red) I went another way, eventually finding my way back to free jazz and what remained of the classical avant-garde. By which time, Punk had somewhat usurped one form of over-ostentation with another, and in any case the last time I'd been to a barber's it had cost me 11/6.

[french frank]

Where to begin? Robert Peston has just put it thus and has chosen him as his most influential Briton: His influence wasn't limited to music, fashion and art. He moved the political and social dial on acceptance of sexual and gender difference in a real, progressive and profound way. What I love about Bowie - - is that he never stopped reinventing himself and challenging us.

I see the Hon. Robert Peston is/ was (whichever) younger than Bowie and was perhaps impressed by him. I've never had any interest in fashion and have no idea in what other ways he was progressive or profound, or influential.

All I can say is that if I saw a photo of him, I would have recognised it as him. But the media are in the hands of a younger generation and they call the tune in a society in which the media rule, OK.

[Frances_iom]

FF
I'm sure you can recall the mid 60's (the Time out generation) when being openly gay was no longer quite the bar outside of showbiz and a few places like the BBC that it was earlier ,which together with better wages especially for those just out of school coupled with adroit marketing on subjects of teenage angst ensured some form of 'he is describing just how I feel' in many teenagers - given his considerably more than the necessary minimum of talent usually required in pop, that such teenages now treat him with near religious fervour as the 'opener' of their awareness - as for politians the only wagon I wish many would jump on is the tumbril.

I was probably a lttle too old to be interested and especially after I'd discovered Bach .

[french frank]

FF
I'm sure you can recall the mid 60's

Yes, and Bowie was 23 when the 'Swinging Sixties' ended. I would guess he was more of a beneficiary than a shaper.

[Serial_Apologist]

I was probably a lttle too old to be interested and especially after I'd discovered Bach .

For somebody like me, who came from a highly musical family background, it has nevertheless been a big surprise to discover how many of those, who today extol the music of Vaughan Williams and the English Pastoralists, extol rhapsodically here on a lot of the 1970s Prog Rock that presumably eventually brought them to this point. The Vaughan Williamsy modal harmonies The Animals used to arrange their 1964 hit of "House of the Rising Sun", an old spiritual, just happen to be the same ones which fall most easily under the amateur guitar picker's finger tips ( C minor > Eb minor > F major > Ab minor > C major eventually). It may be a roundabout route to reaching Tallis by way of Ravel and The Pink Floyd, but if Bowie was part of a picture which helped guide a generation slightly younger than me to musical enrichment, I can hardly complain that Bowie's liberative gender transgressionism came in the end to merely signify personal identity-shaping by the forces that uphold the ephemera of capitalist unsustainability - namely the illusion of individual self-determination - and thus remains only part of any solution to the world problems we have to face (up to) today. The latter was not in Bowie's, yes, genuinely self-determining existential remit; had he attached his cause to the latter he might, maybe might, have lived longer.

[Stillhomewardbound]

I abhor where we are these days with media hype and the like but I would have to say that what we saw yesterday was something quite extraordinary and genuine.

It was actually an occasion when the media had to take a back seat. In my view it was a real event of the people (and without any of that crocodile tears Diana s***).

When I was out at the barbers, then the supermarket and later on the bus, there was no end of informed discussions among folk young and old. Everyone seemed to have a grasp of the diverse Ages of Bowie. On Facebook also, there was a cascade of celebration among my friends and friends of friends. Again from my nephews in their 20s and cousins in their 60s.

Jon Snow of Channel 4 News put it very well when he said, more or less, 'I looked on him as the pop star of my generation, but today I see he was the pop star of all our generations'.

Here's his impromptu and heartfelt tribute:

http://blogs.channel4.com/snowblog/incredible-creative-life-force-david-bowie/26100

[Anna]

I agree with Shb, it's not a generational thing (i.e. it's not only the baby-boomers who are hardcore fans), Bowie has collected admirers of all ages throughout his 50 years of diverse music and styles (as Jon Snow said above) Ask any child and they know of Ziggy Stardust and the Starman!

But for those who don't get Bowie, were untouched by any aspect of his life or work - I wouldn't worry about it!

[Serial_Apologist]

I agree with Shb, it's not a generational thing (i.e. it's not only the baby-boomers who are hardcore fans), Bowie has collected admirers of all ages throughout his 50 years of diverse music and styles (as Jon Snow said above) Ask any child and they know of Ziggy Stardust and the Starman!

But for those who don't get Bowie, were untouched by any aspect of his life or work - I wouldn't worry about it!

[Wallace]

From time to time it is brought home to me that the way I perceive the world is not the way most other people see it. Yesterday was such a time. I knew the name David Bowie and remembered, when I was young, hearing a song of his about spacemen – but that was it. I had no idea what he had done since and I do not say that for effect, I genuinely could not tell you why he is so famous. (A look at Wikipedia told me that he did a lot but evidently it all passed me by.) So when it became apparent on his death that he clearly meant so much to so many people, it came as a shock to me to realise that I could not connect in any way with what people were discussing. It was a moment when I felt apart.

So was yesterday an overreaction? I have no idea as I do not know what people were reacting to. But this says much more about me that it does about David Bowie and the many people who will miss him. Nevertheless, I do gain some comfort from reading this thread and knowing that I am not alone and that there are others who are also puzzled by what happened yesterday.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Sir Georg Solti's death on 5th September 1997, passed almost unnoticed. This was due to the death of Princess Diana, five days earlier. Had they died on the same day, the neglect would have been easier to understand, but nearly a week had passed by. Compare this with the situation when a celebrity of the Popular variety passes away.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

When I opened the new thread, I thought I'd better take responsibility by starting with on of my own threads. Once posted, the order of posts cannot be altered. However, this one seems relevant to the discussion:

I'm surprised that so many (I presume in their mid 50s to 60s) still wish to join in with the mass marketing that is the basis of pop-music (my defn of which is that where more volume means less ability) - I can understand the vox pop channels giving him mega coverage after all it requires much less effort to play a few records than to sensibly discus the mess that both the country and world is in - but the adulation shown here does amaze me.

I agree with this, and we play into the hands of Breakfast presenters who try to look cool by playing popular music - and make a big thing of it.