Loneliness

[Serial_Apologist]

Having, with the exception of three cohabited relationships of approximately three years each, lived on my own for the majority of my life since leaving home at 19, I can only say that, like Petruschka, I am generally content with my own company. RD Laing, for all that I now disagree with much of what he said and wrote, coined a good term for describing a state of living such as mine: "Unlonely aloneness" seems to sum up the compensations of enjoying a strong "inner life" (a broad range of interests and loves), coupled with a strong sense of connectedness with the world, if not always people, notwithstanding having met, befriended and loved some wonderful people, and discovered such folks to be existing here on this forum.

At just past my 70th birthday one sees oneself increasingly set in ways that would not easily adjust to another's idiosyncracies, and I've rather given up on thinking of circumstances changing, while realising, two years on from a health scare, that my elected self-isolation leaves me prone to abandonment were some serious health issue requiring more care than I could give myself to befall me, having up to now (touch wood) managed flu and the usual other suspects.

[Nick Armstrong]

Being alone, aka solitude, on the other hand as distinct from being lonely, can be very enjoyable.

Have you heard the radio programme I referenced up-thread Anna - especially Lucy Mangan's opening remarks...? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0076xh3

[jean]

Ich bin allein aber nicht einsam, my old German teacher made us chant - but I think that was for linguistic rather than psychological reasons.

(I haven't watched or listened to either programme yet.)

[Anna]

Have you heard the radio programme I referenced up-thread Anna - especially Lucy Mangan's opening remarks...? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0076xh3

Yes, I've listened to half of it and noted your comments upthread that it mirrors your feelings! She could have added the sheer relief when waving goodbye to even much loved house guests!! (Not caught up with the tv programme)

[umslopogaas]

I have always lived alone since leaving university in 1974. I sometimes feel lonely, not in the sense of pining for intimacy, but more a desire for discussion. This has led to write quite a lot of letters over the years, and more recently a lot of emails. The upside of living alone is that you can live a selfish existence and not feel guilty about it. The downside, as I said, is that sometimes you want someone to talk to. You can always write to friends, but as I have to keep reminding myself, I am retired and can spend as long as I like writing letters, but most of my friends are still working and havent the time to write long replies.

And I agree about much loved house guests. I am always glad to have friends and relatives to stay, but I cant deny that there is a certain relief when they depart!

[Nick Armstrong]

Yes, I've listened to half of it and noted your comments upthread that it mirrors your feelings! She could have added the sheer relief when waving goodbye to even much loved house guests!! (Not caught up with the tv programme)

The sequel (to the radio programme which I note was first aired in 2006) is to be found here

However I have gone off Ms Mangan somewhat as I remember / found that she wrote the Guardian review last week enthusing over the New Year's Day Sherlock.....

[Roslynmuse]

I haven't yet watched or listened to the programmes referenced above, but I shall try to at some point.

As has been stated several times, there is a difference between being alone and loneliness - a useful distinction might be that one state may be voluntary, the other never is. This all feels peculiarly relevant at the moment since I have been suffering from depression since last spring and have been off work for the last two months. The sense of loneliness is one of the most crippling features of this illness, even when one is surrounded by other people. In fact, the inability to reach out and connect with other human beings is probably a major cause of depressive illness for many people, and, as someone said upthread, it can cause physical (eg cardiac) symptoms as well as produce emotional effects. (And let's not forget that the emotional effects are a result of a physical cause eg chemical imbalance - no different from diabetes in that sense.)

As regards using fora such as these - yes, they can be a source of contact with like-minded people, but they can also be just as isolating - if one posts what one considers a well-reasoned paragraph on a favourite composer, work, performance, whatever, and it is passed over without comment then it can discourage one from posting more. (If one is depressed one becomes very - over - sensitive to perceived slights!) When I came back to this forum in the autumn (after some time away from it) I only posted in the Classical Associations thread, because I knew I'd get a response there! (It wasn't always the case though... )

I should add that when I'm well I am quite happy with my own company - when I choose to be alone - and that at last finding a medication that is fairly helpful has improved things for me to some extent.

[eighthobstruction]

I haven't yet watched or listened to the programmes referenced above, but I shall try to at some point.

As has been stated several times, there is a difference between being alone and loneliness - a useful distinction might be that one state may be voluntary, the other never is. This all feels peculiarly relevant at the moment since I have been suffering from depression since last spring and have been off work for the last two months. The sense of loneliness is one of the most crippling features of this illness, even when one is surrounded by other people. In fact, the inability to reach out and connect with other human beings is probably a major cause of depressive illness for many people, and, as someone said upthread, it can cause physical (eg cardiac) symptoms as well as produce emotional effects. (And let's not forget that the emotional effects are a result of a physical cause eg chemical imbalance - no different from diabetes in that sense.)

As regards using fora such as these - yes, they can be a source of contact with like-minded people, but they can also be just as isolating - if one posts what one considers a well-reasoned paragraph on a favourite composer, work, performance, whatever, and it is passed over without comment then it can discourage one from posting more. (If one is depressed one becomes very - over - sensitive to perceived slights!) When I came back to this forum in the autumn (after some time away from it) I only posted in the Classical Associations thread, because I knew I'd get a response there! (It wasn't always the case though... )

I should add that when I'm well I am quite happy with my own company - when I choose to be alone - and that at last finding a medication that is fairly helpful has improved things for me to some extent.

....thank you for being so honest Roslynmuse. It is not easy. I don't think I can write much as I am having a fairly good day, and I want it to stay that way. Just wanted to say all the best, keep on going....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

....thank you for being so honest Roslynmuse. It is not easy. I don't think I can write much as I am having a fairly good day, and I want it to stay that way. Just wanted to say all the best, keep on going....

- yes, thanks indeed for your post, Roslynmuse; and best wishes.

[french frank]

As for the forum, this kind of topic makes me think of a quote in Basil the Freshest Boy by Scott Fitzgerald:

"It isn't given to us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world. They will not be cured by our most efficacious drugs or slain with our sharpest swords."

Feeling 'ignored' or being on the receiving end of what would normally be taken as a light-hearted comment at just the wrong moment can harm rather than heal when people have come looking for some companionship …

[EdgeleyRob]

I haven't yet watched or listened to the programmes referenced above, but I shall try to at some point.

As has been stated several times, there is a difference between being alone and loneliness - a useful distinction might be that one state may be voluntary, the other never is. This all feels peculiarly relevant at the moment since I have been suffering from depression since last spring and have been off work for the last two months. The sense of loneliness is one of the most crippling features of this illness, even when one is surrounded by other people. In fact, the inability to reach out and connect with other human beings is probably a major cause of depressive illness for many people, and, as someone said upthread, it can cause physical (eg cardiac) symptoms as well as produce emotional effects. (And let's not forget that the emotional effects are a result of a physical cause eg chemical imbalance - no different from diabetes in that sense.)

As regards using fora such as these - yes, they can be a source of contact with like-minded people, but they can also be just as isolating - if one posts what one considers a well-reasoned paragraph on a favourite composer, work, performance, whatever, and it is passed over without comment then it can discourage one from posting more. (If one is depressed one becomes very - over - sensitive to perceived slights!) When I came back to this forum in the autumn (after some time away from it) I only posted in the Classical Associations thread, because I knew I'd get a response there! (It wasn't always the case though... )

I should add that when I'm well I am quite happy with my own company - when I choose to be alone - and that at last finding a medication that is fairly helpful has improved things for me to some extent.

Hi Roslynmuse.

I can relate to this.
When in the depths of depression, it's strange how lonely I felt even if surrounded by friends,family,children.
And yet when the depression lifted it was nice to alone sometimes.

You take care.

[Roslynmuse]

Thanks to eighthobstruction, ferneyhoughgeliebte and EdgeleyRob for kind wishes, and to french frank for the quotation that absolutely sums up what I was thinking earlier.

[mangerton]

As regards using fora such as these - yes, they can be a source of contact with like-minded people, but they can also be just as isolating - if one posts what one considers a well-reasoned paragraph on a favourite composer, work, performance, whatever, and it is passed over without comment then it can discourage one from posting more.

Indeed. I can relate to that. It can be very dispiriting when one posts and receives no response or relevant comment. Much of what is written here is not conversation, but a series of often unrelated comments. I realise that I am by no means guiltless myself in this area.

I have lived alone for almost twenty years, and as others have said, that is quite different from being lonely. I am normally quite happy with my own company - doing, watching, listening to, going to, eating, drinking what I want, when I want. But sometimes I miss having someone to talk to about the minutiae of everyday life, or to sound off about the incompetence of whatever government happens to be in power, or the state of the weather.

Sunday evenings can be especially annoying, thinking of the coming working week.

[Roslynmuse]

Indeed. I can relate to that. It can be very dispiriting when one posts and receives no response or relevant comment. Much of what is written here is not conversation, but a series of often unrelated comments. I realise that I am by no means guiltless myself in this area.

I have to remind myself sometimes of the many posts that I read and enjoy but don't feel a need to comment on. And, as you say, it often isn't conversation (or even argument!)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I have to remind myself sometimes of the many posts that I read and enjoy but don't feel a need to comment on. And, as you say, it often isn't conversation (or even argument!)

- the trouble with these internet chatroom thingies is that, unlike real chatter between groups of people, you can't see the people who just nod quietly in agreement.



(You do realize that I'll feel obliged to answer every post I read from now on ... )