Osama Bin Laden: Dead

[BBMmk2]

I think that this man is more dangerous dead than alive.

[amateur51]

The barbarism occured on 9/11. Let's not forget the seismic effect that event had on the USA and the world as a whole. The Americans have finally seen the planner of that atrocity brought to justice. I think they can be allowed a little celebration.

Just a small point but in UK it happened on 11/9 not 9/11.

Just that little difference speaks volumes

And do you recall how horrified 'we' all were when news reached us that crowds of peope somewhere else on the planet people cheered at the sight of those planes flying into the twin towers and when they subsequently collapsed?

And now Americans are cheering and whooping it up over the apparent death of one man. Funny old world.

No body, no remains - how convenient. I daresay there's nothing in this, but I do resent how I have become just a teensy-weensy bit of a cynical conspiracy theorist over the years because of the mendacity of politicians and the manipulations of sundry news media organisations.

Thanks for your voices of reason, dovers, Ferret, Caliban, pilamenon, Bryn et al

[Mr Pee]

The idea of Al-Quaeda as an organisation with a massive network is questionable - it's been suggested that it never existed in the form the USA portrayed it in, & that it was a construct (fantasy?) of the USA security forces. The claimed disposal of the body at sea is surely highly unusual - wouldn't it have been taken back to the USA for verification? The 'firefigh' at the site preceeding his capture/killing will also presumably have destroyed any evidence of Al-Quaeda's true extent.

It didn't take long for the conspiracy theorists to come out of the woodwork, did it? Perhaps you're also one of those who thinks that the CIA were really behind 9/11?

Don't you think that if the USA wanted to pretend Bin Laden was dead they would have done it already? And what would be the point, given that he'd almost certainly pop up on Al-Jazeera fairly shortly proclaiming himself alive and well. Reports suggest that he was given the opportunity to surrender- that may or may not be true. I would think that in the heat of battle there isn't always time to observe such niceties. However, if true, it was one more choice than most of his victims were given.

And supposing he had been taken alive- can you imagine the problems that would have caused? As far as I'm concerned, justice has been served. A trial would have been a pointless exercise. Or are you suggesting that perhaps he could have been found not guilty?

[Nick Armstrong]

The barbarism occured on 9/11.

I deliberately said "look barbaric".

The Americans have finally seen the planner of that atrocity brought to justice. I think they can be allowed a little celebration.

If you don't realise how simplistic and misconceived those generalised clichés are, I haven't got the courage (or the time) to try and explain.

[amateur51]

A trial would have been a pointless exercise. Or are you suggesting that perhaps he could have been found not guilty?

Oh well that's alright then!

So who are the barbarians now?

Back to the couch and Mr Clarkson with you Mr Pee - KISS!!

[burning dog]

I have never met anyobody who thinks Islamist terroism is all, or even mostly, at the behest of Bin Laden and his "Evil Empire", including a lot of New Labour and Right Wing Tory types.

[Norfolk Born]

I feared the worst when this thread was started - and, sure enough, feathers are being spat and insults traded - to what end? Before long, enough heat will have been generated to power a medium-sized warship - but not enough light to read by.

[Nick Armstrong]

I feared the worst when this thread was started - and, sure enough, feathers are being spat and insults traded - to what end? Before long, enough heat will have been generated to power a medium-sized warship - but not enough light to read by.

I'm outta here (as they say)

[Mary Chambers]

I join doversoul in finding the whooping and cheering of the crowd outside the White House pretty nauseating. Makes our American cousins look barbaric - but then I don't suppose it has any more connection with how most people there think and act normally than the Royal-struck crowd outside Buckingham Palace wearing plastic tiaras and shouting "Kiss Kiss" on Friday...

Just two examples of obedient peasants, according to my son.

[Flosshilde]

From another BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-13257330) -

"Intelligence officials in the US are quoted by AP as saying that the house was custom-built to harbour a major "terrorist" figure. It says CIA experts analysed whether it could be anyone else but they decided it was almost certainly Bin Laden."

It was 'almost certainly' Bin Laden - so it might not have been. & with his body disposed of at sea, there's no possibility of being certain.

[Flosshilde]

I feared the worst when this thread was started - and, sure enough, feathers are being spat and insults traded - to what end? Before long, enough heat will have been generated to power a medium-sized warship - but not enough light to read by.

Oh come on - Simon hasn't appeared yet!

[burning dog]

[
It was 'almost certainly' Bin Laden - so it might not have been. & with his body disposed of at sea, there's no possibility of being certain.[/QUOTE

My old council in London used to have a red "Bin laden" Light on their dustcarts. There weren't many Muslims in the Southern Half of the Borough, Blacks and Irish, Yes, but in the North.. makes you think!!!

Has anyone ever seen Obama and Bin Laden together? This could be a new one from the conspiricy nutters in the USA. Could be why the Pres didn't want to show his college certificates, he was called Mr Al Keeder at the time. With a fake Bin Laden now buried at Sea its trouble for the west

[Mr Pee]

it was 'almost certainly' bin laden - so it might not have been. & with his body disposed of at sea, there's no possibility of being certain.

Unbelievable. I think that even if the US had produced a body, the loonies would have come out of the woodwork saying it wasn't really him.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

there may well be further terrorist responses to this, or crimes that are claimed as responses ... revenge is not justice and there can be no joy in killing any one so the moral test is what does his removal do to deter or prevent further terrorist activity ... prima facie there is a case for a good claim for this action preventing further murders by AL Q ... but not an unequivocal claim since it is likely to provoke reprisal ....

presumably the body was disposed of at sea to deter its use in creating a shrine ....

... when the IRA detonated the bomb in Warrington and killed the 12 yr old boy i was filled with a rage against Irish Nationalism that still endures ... what end could possibly justify such means? his parents became models of sanity and the exemplified the best response in their disavowal of revenge .... and i am sure this played a positive part in the development of the so far more or less successful peace process ... alas i confess to still raging at the tv screen when i see McGuiness and Adams ... even though their apparent 'clean sheet' supports the creation of a peaceful community, and hopefully more just reconciliation of the sectarian interests in NI, i steel feel that they are unpunished murderers ... i would think that many Americans, amongst many others, felt the same about Bin Laden ....

and as the vicious idiots in the Real IRA, or whatever they call themselves, have just demonstrated, the taste for murder does not go away ...given the opportunity for a clean shot to the head against the planters of the recent bomb, and likely future bombs .... i think i would say shoot .... and betray my commitment to due process of the law, the right to trial .... and real liberty; thus rage corrupts and tragedies ensue ...

the timing of this is tricky eh ... the Arab world is embracing an open struggle for freedom, dignity and respect ... and we are bombing Gadafi's family and the US shoots Bin Laden .... whilst the demographic surge in Syria, and later Iran, will test our responses beyond our capacities .... i have the dark feeling that it has been the easy bit so far ... game changing was one epithet used to describe the killing of Bin Laden, for sure, but when games change .......

[ahinton]

I haven't seen much evidence of "crowing" over this either, although I could well have done without such as I have seen of it; it's nothing to "crow" about, for all the temporary and partial relief that it might bring those who see that at least some kind of justice appears to have been done.

It's perhaps worth soberly remembering at this point that a terrorist is a terrorist is a terrorist; taking military or other offensive action against the people of a state that has already done the same to one's own state is one thing, but what has gone on at the hands of US, UK and other nations in recent years in various countries that have done no such thing first is quite another. The only difference (insofar as it is a difference) is perhaps that the actions of Al-Qaeda are those of an international non-governmental organisation dedicated to the commission of international terrorism, whereas those of US, UK, etc. are committed by national governments against states that have not first committed direct acts of aggression against them, but that difference is of no consolation whatsoever to the bereaved, fearful and impoverished, not only in the victim countries but also in America, Britain, etc. (re the last of which conditions it is surely worth mentioning the extent to which Americans, Brits, etc. have been impoverished by their respective governments' investment of such vast swathes of their taxes on illegal wars).

Assuming that ObL has indeed been removed from the ability to issue any more threats or cause an further damage, that has to be "a good thing"; the self-righteous "crowings" of Westerners over it is, however, anything but...