Osama Bin Laden: Dead

[Mr Pee]

The sheer thought of the President of the United States actually watching a man being killed, filmed live (dead) and probably knowing what was to happen, makes me quite sick.

Watching 9/11 made me quite sick.

The death of the man responsible for that atrocity had no such effect.

And I give kudos to Obama for being hands on and actually watching what was going on.

[Mr Pee]

2. OBL being a direct threat: I prefer not to be so troubled by one in a million chance of misfortune.

Well that's alright then.

Let's just forget about the thousands of 9/ll victims, and their families, and the thousands more whom he might have murdered in the future. Just so long as doversoul's safe and unharmed.

Is it therefore part of your morality that murderers should walk free, just so long as they don't harm you, or your nearest and dearest? It amounts to the same thing.

[Nick Armstrong]

A troll? Here, in leafy West Sussex, home to Glorious Goodwood, Arundel Castle, seat of The Duke of Norfolk, Polo at Cowdray, and the newly created South Downs National Park?? The very idea.

Although if there is one, at least he'd be a nice middle-class one, who knew how to hold a knife and fork properly. Not like those nasty Northern trolls. I'm told they eat puddings made from blood, and fly whippets at the weekend.

Looks a bit like leafy West Sussex to me..... http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:Troll.jpg

[MrGongGong]

Well that's alright then.

Let's just forget about the thousands of 9/ll victims, and their families, and the thousands more whom he might have murdered in the future. Just so long as doversoul's safe and unharmed.

Is it therefore part of your morality that murderers should walk free, just so long as they don't harm you, or your nearest and dearest? It amounts to the same thing.

Who on earth (except YOU ) suggested that ANYONE was suggesting that murderers should "walk free" ???????

TRY READING WHAT PEOPLE SAY (if that's possible ????)

[Norfolk Born]

Calm down, dears!

[Lateralthinking1]

Well, I know I said earlier that the threat has been overestimated on the basis of the number of events that have occurred. I have also said that it was used as a means of keeping western populations controlled. I believe these things. I can also tell you that it feels very different when you are in Central London daily. Had I spent the last ten years in leafy idylls, I wouldn't have had that experience. It would have suited me far better.

Feeling threatened or not is rarely about preference. My understanding is that this is recognised by domestic law. If someone shakes a fist at your face, and then at the person beside you, it could be assault in your case but not his if he simply shrugs his shoulders. A key part of it is whether the person feels threatened. It matters further if the other was of the intention to hit. Bin Laden was. Interestingly, if you dismiss the anxieties as being weak-willed, you move closely into the area of survival of the fittest which is at least partially what is behind the anti-American sentiment.

I do think you can interpret morality. This is not "I think x is moral and you think y and she thinks z" etc. You can look at it statistically for a start. You can think "oh, it appears for once that all countries are in agreement on something of a moral nature", ie he shall not threaten to blow up innocent civilians randomly. Practically, it may extend to "arresting this man is first going to be like finding a needle in a haystack - then the potential for unpredictability once he is found is such that it may not be possible to handcuff him - the dangers of assault by him or much worse are to be expected given the regular statements he has made".

Some of this is important for while it could be argued that the superpowers employ double standards, a Gandhi like figure among all of those in agreement could be saying precisely the same thing. This by definition would be very helpful to moral context. The countries and the laws they have made become asses if the laws contravene that sort of universal assessment. Time to revisit the legislation itself methinks. Not change it radically because it is essentially right but to make it more subtle and practical.

I do not believe for one moment that Obama is a more psychotic individual than was Osama. I do think he is sufficiently his own man to temper the excesses of the American state apparatus. He is a darn sight more likely to do that than another of the Bush clan or Trump or Palin. Apparently India was smirking and China as usual stayed quiet. If these countries are becoming so wealthy that they are economically a problem for us - China has a working programme to build almost 100 airports - they will need to start shelling out where to do this is internationally responsible. Part of the ongoing Wild West gangsterism from the US is precisely because others aren't meeting their responsibilities and who is to say that they wouldn't necessarily do it better?

I was not suggesting that living in a country automatically meant that you formally are of that state. What I am saying is that there are requirements on you just as if you were of that state. Polish shopworkers in Croydon are required to pay taxes; abstention from alcohol is required of the British in parts of the Middle East etc. I knew a guy who was born to British parents at an army base somewhere in the Far East and who, from memory, had some questions about his formal nationality although he spoke like a Yorkshireman. This didn't mean that he didn't pay taxes in work, receive a university grant, or have the right to trial.

[Mandryka]

To put things in some kind of perspective, I can recall reading gloating messages by leftists/liberals when comedian Bernard Manning expired a few years back. And I'm sure there would be street parties in Stoke Newington is something horrible happened to Jeremy Clarkson.

The impression dawns that 'Operation Geronimo' (many Native American groups have taken offence at its so naming) was something of a shambles and that the White House's management of the news is very poor. Frankly, the public has been lied to about the circumstances in which Bin Laden was apprehended and disposed of.

Obama was probably being sensitive in not revealing the photos; but all that sensitivity will count for naught when he makes his noxious visit to so-called 'Ground Zero'. Whatever tone he attempts to set, it'll just be another jamboree for comic-book addicted yankee doodles.

Obama also faces the unedifying prospect of standing for re-election next year with only one positive on his otherwise dismal record: he succeeded in killing an Arab. (President L'Etranger, anyone?)


Bottom line: the world is not a safer place for Bin Laden's absence from it; in fact, it may become even more dangerous.

Not a 'good week for America' for those living outside the goldfish bowl.

[scottycelt]

Calm down, dears!

What a nauseatingly sexist remark ... are you some sort of male chauvinist, gay-bashing, Tory Troll?

[Lateralthinking1]

I have to come back on that one. Extracts from Wikipedia:

Obama has reduced the secrecy given to presidential records and changed procedures to promote disclosure under the Freedom of Information Act.

The first bill signed into law by Obama was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act of 2009, relaxing the statute of limitations for equal-pay lawsuits.

Five days later, he signed the reauthorization of the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to cover an additional 4 million children currently uninsured.

In March 2009, Obama reversed a Bush-era policy which had limited funding of embryonic stem cell research. Obama stated that he believed "sound science and moral values...are not inconsistent" and pledged to develop "strict guidelines" on the research.

Obama appointed two women to serve on the Supreme Court in the first two years of his Presidency.

On September 30, 2009, the Obama administration proposed new regulations on power plants, factories and oil refineries in an attempt to limit greenhouse gas emissions and to curb global warming.

On October 8, 2009, Obama signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, a measure that expands the 1969 United States federal hate-crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim's actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability.

On March 30, 2010, Obama signed the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act, a reconciliation bill which ends the process of the federal government giving subsidies to private banks to give out federally insured loans, increases the Pell Grant scholarship award, and makes changes to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act.

In a major space policy speech in April 2010, Obama announced a planned change in direction at NASA, the U.S. space agency. He ended plans for a return of manned spaceflight to the moon and ended development of the Ares I rocket, Ares V rocket and Constellation program. He is focusing funding (which is expected to rise modestly) on Earth science projects and a new rocket type, as well as research and development for an eventual manned mission to Mars.

On December 22, 2010, Obama signed the Don't Ask, Don't Tell Repeal Act of 2010, a bill that provides for repeal of the Don't ask, don't tell policy of 1993 that has prevented gay and lesbian people from serving openly in the United States Armed Forces. Repealing "Don't ask, don't tell" had been a key campaign promise that Obama had made during the 2008 presidential campaign.

On February 17, 2009, Obama signed the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009, a $787 billion economic stimulus package aimed at helping the economy recover from the deepening worldwide recession.The act includes increased federal spending for health care, infrastructure, education, various tax breaks and incentives, and direct assistance to individuals, which is being distributed over the course of several years.

In March, Obama's Treasury Secretary, Timothy Geithner, took further steps to manage the financial crisis, including introducing the Public-Private Investment Program for Legacy Assets, which contains provisions for buying up to $2 trillion in depreciated real estate assets.

Obama intervened in the troubled automotive industry in March 2009, renewing loans for General Motors and Chrysler to continue operations while reorganizing. Over the following months the White House set terms for both firms' bankruptcies, including the sale of Chrysler to Italian automaker Fiat and a reorganization of GM giving the U.S. government a temporary 60% equity stake in the company, with the Canadian government shouldering a 12% stake.

In June 2009, dissatisfied with the pace of economic stimulus, Obama called on his cabinet to accelerate the investment. He signed into law the Car Allowance Rebate System, known colloquially as "Cash for Clunkers".

Within a month of the 2010 midterm elections, Obama announced a compromise deal with the Congressional Republican leadership that included a temporary, two-year extension of the 2001 and 2003 income tax rates, a one-year payroll tax reduction, continuation of unemployment benefits, and a new rate and exemption amount for estate taxes. The compromise overcome opposition from some in both parties, and the resulting $858 billion Tax Relief, Unemployment Insurance Reauthorization, and Job Creation Act of 2010 passed with bipartisan majorities in both houses of Congress before Obama signed it on December 17, 2010.

On November 7, 2009, a health care bill was passed in the House.On December 24, 2009, the Senate passed its own bill—without a public option—on a party-line vote of 60–39. On March 21, 2010, the health care bill passed by the Senate in December was passed in the House by a vote of 219 to 212. Obama signed the bill into law on March 23, 2010.

[amateur51]

What a nauseatingly sexist remark ... are you some sort of male chauvinist, gay-bashing, Tory Troll?

How so, scotty?

I know how tempting it can be to use newly-discovered words at every possible opportunity, but really ..

[scottycelt]

Don't you ever watch the thrilling spectacle that is PMQ, amateur ... ?

[Donnie Essen]

Well, now I got myself set on a position and I think Osama should've been arrested. I see now that other folk agree with me too, like one Ken Livingstone and one Rowan Williams. It ain't a case of not wanting him to die. He'd have likely got the death penalty after a trial anyway. Also, he'd have been so darn uncomfortable in the hands of the US.

Maybe it's a different country thing, 'cause 'We will find and kill Osama bin Laden' would never have flown as an election promise over here in the Uk without raising a whole load of eyebrows and criticism from all over the political spectrum, I reckon, at least for the fact that such bravado wouldn't fly here. I'm wondering what folk like Cameron think privately, like how they would've done it if they were in that position. Maybe they'd have liked to do the same as the big O, but they wouldn't have gotten away with it here.

[amateur51]

Don't you ever watch the thrilling spectacle that is PMQ, amateur ... ?

I do, scotty , I do & I know how the sight of Call-Me-Dave's roasting by that Proletarian oaf Balls must have inspired you, but CMD's patronising remark was addressed at Ms Angela Eagle and it isn't clear from Ofca's remark where the sexism lies in this instance

[Mr Pee]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/borisjohnson/8501595/Lets-be-clear-Osama-bin-Laden-was-executed-and-for-good-reason.html

[doversoul1]

Let's be clear: Osama bin Laden was executed – and for good reason By Boris Johnson

Is this not exactly what OBL &Co. must have said about the New York attack? And I expect they watched their ‘successful mission’ on TV just like Obama & Co. did. Is that what you are pointing out, Mr Pee?