Osama Bin Laden: Dead

[MrGongGong]

I have lost all respect for Barack Obama as a result of this mission, and his repulsive jingoistic comments. With the intelligence in their possession, the USA had the chance to set an example to the world and bring Bin Laden to court for his crimes against humanity. They blew it.

that's more or less how it seems to me as well
what I find more than a little ironic is that the first black president of the USA seems to have decided on assassination as a legitimate way of trying to court public opinion. Its not too long ago that they were lynching his ancestors

Its not "you are either with us or against us" but sadly that seems to be the way that the world has become.........

[amateur51]

And if you believe that's a valid charge, then you're even further away with the fairies than I thought you were.

Why don't you wrap yourself up in The Guardian and toddle off to bed. I think you're starting to lose the plot.

Again......

What's not valid about it if it was feasible to take him alive Mr Pee? A taser would have disarmed him and his human shield (if she ever existed) for quite long enough for a set of cuffs to have been slapped on him - apparently he wasn't carrying a gun. Looks like the intention was always to kill him and that's extrajudicial murder and international terrorism and illegal invasion of the airspace of a sovereign state (which also happens to be an ally)

The way in which the initial 'explanation' is unravelling sounds very similar to what we (and the Chief Commissioner initially) were told by the Met after Jean Charles de Menezes was shot.

I wonder how News International is handling these latest revelations? 'Bin Bagged' was The Sun's headline first off

[Mahlerei]

i too have lost respect for Obama. Earlier in the day there was another interview with a young man whose father died on 9/11. He said he felt no joy at, or needed to celebrate, the death of Bin Laden. In fact he maintains that real closure will only come when the issues that gave rise to 9/11 are resolved.

[Mandryka]

Feeling pleasure at anyone else's pain or suffering is about as low as you can go. It is possible that Bin Laden felt pleased at the agony suffered by those who were his indirect victims, but we don't know this. Fortunately, there is not much evidence that his own was a painful death. Those celebrating will feel pretty hollow afterwards. And I doubt this Hollywood-style illegal assassination will take away the loss or suffering of Al Qaeda's victims in the long-term.

The interview with a woman relative of a 9/11 victim by Matt Frei at Ground Zero towards the end of the Six O'Clock News last night was very moving. She seemed bewildered and certainly ambivalent. She felt no joy at what had happened, and said it brought a lot of the pain back.

I have lost all respect for Barack Obama as a result of this mission, and his repulsive jingoistic comments. With the intelligence in their possession, the USA had the chance to set an example to the world and bring Bin Laden to court for his crimes against humanity. They blew it.

To be fair, Obama was much less triumphalist than certain other people would have been in his position. Had the Republicans been in power, they would probably have proclaimed it a national holiday ('We got 'im!' day).

Apparently, it took the President 16 hours to make his thoughtful decision on how BL should be dealt with.

As to OBL feeling pain - I think being shot in the eye will have made him writhe a bit. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Seals vented their patriotic anger on the corpse, otherwise we'd have had a pic of it by now. I would imagine some serious air-brushing is going on as we write....

[Stillhomewardbound]

I blame 'The West Wing' entirely for this and it's cosy portrayal of the good guy having to do a dirty thing 'cos its the right and only thing he can do. It's given the Obama administration a kind of modal PR template to work to.

The taking of pictures in the Situation Room was part of this bleak effort of a lame mid-term president rescuing himself for his re-election.

This is very, very real life, but so cynically dished up with an Aaron Sorkin spin.

There clearly was no agenda for taking OBL in to custody and I am really not surprised by that. I doubt there's a country in the world, Britain very much included, that has not summarily executed a foe, but I despise the glorification of the process.

This is real life and not the West Wing. At least Gary Cooper in High Noon had the decency to chuck his badge in the sand before he walked away.

[Lateralthinking1]

Operation Geronimo. I would imagine the reason why they chose that name was that on a scale A=1, B=2......Z=26, G+E+R+O+N+I+M+O equals 96. Add the 9 to the 6 and you get 15. The operation took place on 1/5 - 1st May.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13265069

[Op. XXXIX]

To be fair, Obama was much less triumphalist than certain other people would have been in his position. Had the Republicans been in power, they would probably have proclaimed it a national holiday ('We got 'im!' day).

Apparently, it took the President 16 hours to make his thoughtful decision on how BL should be dealt with.

I appreciate this post. Thanks for that.

Information keeps changing every minute -or so it seems- there's a lot we just don't know, if we ever will.

[amateur51]

I blame 'The West Wing' entirely for this and it's cosy portrayal of the good guy having to do a dirty thing 'cos its the right and only thing he can do. It's given the Obama administration a kind of modal PR template to work to.

The taking of pictures in the Situation Room was part of this bleak effort of a lame mid-term president rescuing himself for his re-election.

This is very, very real life, but so cynically dished up with an Aaron Sorkin spin.

There clearly was no agenda for taking OBL in to custody and I am really not surprised by that. I doubt there's a country in the world, Britain very much included, that has not summarily executed a foe, but I despise the glorification of the process.

This is real life and not the West Wing. At least Gary Cooper in High Noon had the decency to chuck his badge in the sand before he walked away.

Yeah and he's a better accompanist than .... oh that Gary Cooper

High Noon - what a film!

[Norfolk Born]

The longer and more irrational this thread becomes, the more convinced I am that J*hn St*p* was involved. Colin Fishwick was merely a dry run for the real thing. And how come you never see Schmeichel and Barack Obama in the room at the same time?

[Ferretfancy]

I always wondered who was really buried under the knicker factory.

[Mr Pee]

It's very easy, from the comfort of our computer screens, and with the benefit of hindsight and time for reflection, to throw about words like "execution" and "assasination", when in reality we haven't a clue what really happened. I think the only mistake the White House have made in this exercise is that they should have waited until all the facts were clear before releasing details of the raid, because by saying too much too quickly, they have just allowed the bonkers conspiracy theorists and predictable USA bashers more room to peddle their paranoid nonsense. As we have seen on this thread.

Imagine the situation:- you're wearing night vision goggles, which do increase visibility, but are not perfect. There is gunfire all around. The situation is confused. OBL may be armed, he may not, you have no way of knowing. He makes a movement- reaching for a weapon?- and you have a split second to make a decision.

I'm imagining what went on, as much as the next man, because only those involved in the raid really know. But one thing's for sure- in the heat of battle, a decision had to be made. And the right decision was taken.

[MrGongGong]

Thank god (or God for some of you) that folk like MrP spend all their time cycling the lanes of Malvern only stopping to salivate over a copy of Maxpower
rather than have any influence in the world

interesting to see that some think that suggesting that we have a legal system is "paranoid nonsense"

maybe we should just "take out" people we think are a "bit iffy" ?
Evidence ? who needs that when you are the good guys ?

It really sounds like the sequel to Team America World Police

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZdJRDpLHbw

(surely simon is back from Pakistan now and could enlighten us all ? I heard he was part of the crack team of logician elephant seals ?)

[Stillhomewardbound]

Ah yes, the old 'as if reaching for a weapon' defence. I'm always intrigued how unarmed people in these situations invariably reach for guns that they don't have.

As far as I'm concerned, it was an execution, plain and simple, but as I've said, I'm not surprised.

What is unseemly is that if you're going to play those games you don't go and broadcast them to the world and then whimper about how the world is so anti-American.

[Flosshilde]

Looks like the intention was always to kill him

See one of my posts some way back. It was reported on The World at One on Monday (?) that a spokesman for the USA security/intelligence agency said that the instructions were to kill him.

[aeolium]

I think the only mistake the White House have made in this exercise is that they should have waited until all the facts were clear before releasing details of the raid, because by saying too much too quickly, they have just allowed the bonkers conspiracy theorists and predictable USA bashers more room to peddle their paranoid nonsense.

But the senior White House staff, including Obama, were watching the whole exercise. How could they have got such basic facts wrong as the fact that ObL was unarmed and there was no human shield - those elements of the initial report were entirely fabricated?

And let's get rid of this nonsensical idea that a concern for the rule of law is a 'lefty' obsession. It should be the concern of anyone regardless of political persuasion - read The Rule of Law by the former senior Law Lord, Tom Bingham, for an explanation why. Indeed, it was the Labour party's cavalier approach to the rule of law on both the international and domestic fronts that awakened in me a distrust for that party that is likely to be permanent (the Conservatives were much better in this area, at least on the domestic front).