Noise or silence: who decides?

[jean]

...Which raises the issue that has been raised once or twice before: the assumption that if people want to remain still and silent, no one is stopping them. What is becoming, for interesting reasons, an increasingly commonly held view is that it's 'inappropriate', even perhaps selfish, for those who wish to remain still and silent to expect others to be so.

This is flawed: people do not remain still and silent because they wish to remain still and silent, but because they wish stillness and silence to reign. In this they are thwarted, if others wish to move or make a noise, which shatters the stillness and silence. So if either side is going to succumb to 'noise rage' it will be the people who want silence.

And this isn't something that applies exclusively to audiences at classical concerts....

I thought of this when I was going round the Celts exhibition at the British Museum the other day. For the first time in my experience, here was an exhibition accompanied by an unremitting soundtrack - an awful repetitive dirge on some kind of primitive flute. Someone's idea of a generic 'Celtic' music, as far as I know unconnected with any actual Celtic music we know anything about. I found it intrusive and maddening.

I've complained, and asked for a reply. I'll let you know what they say.

[Flosshilde]

Does it help to drown out the chatter about the neighbours, or last night's dinner party, or schools that I usually hear when I go to an exhibition, or the irritting hiss/buzz from audio guides?

[MrGongGong]

I thought of this when I was going round the Celts exhibition at the British Museum the other day. For the first time in my experience, here was an exhibition accompanied by an unremitting soundtrack - an awful repetitive dirge on some kind of primitive flute. Someone's idea of a generic 'Celtic' music, as far as I know unconnected with any actual Celtic music we know anything about. I found it intrusive and maddening.

I've complained, and asked for a reply. I'll let you know what they say.

How do you know it's "unconnected"? I don't know anything about that music so i'm not the person to ask.
The great Trevor Wishart made the sounds for the Yorvik museum in York and did epic amounts of detailed research about languages and soundscapes as part of that process.
I would be surprised if they just got a CD of "Panpipe Moods".

[jean]

How do you know it's "unconnected"?...

The great Trevor Wishart made the sounds for the Yorvik museum in York and did epic amounts of detailed research about languages and soundscapes as part of that process.

Well... the music (of which no substantial evidence remains) [had to be] reconstructed by intelligent guesswork it says here.

It also says Trevor Wishart's original sound environment was eventually replaced in 2010. But it doesn't say what it was replaced with.

I would be surprised if they just got a CD of "Panpipe Moods".

That's exactly what I seemed to be hearing at the BM.

[MrGongGong]

Well... the music (of which no substantial evidence remains) [had to be] reconstructed by intelligent guesswork it says here.

It also says Trevor Wishart's original sound environment was eventually replaced in 2010. But it doesn't say what it was replaced with.



That's exactly what I seemed to be hearing at the BM.

What was impressive about what Trevor did was the way in which he researched the sound of the languages and the soundscapes.
Surely all performances of Bach's music could equally be said to be "intelligent guesswork"?

Don't get me wrong, I haven't heard it BUT I would be surprised if they hadn't gone to someone who does know about these things for the sound design?
Is John Kenny and the Carnyx featured at all?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

It's quite some time since I visited Jorvik, but there was no music - just the sounds that might have been present in a Viking settlement.

Living locally, I must visit again, now that the tourist season has abated a little.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Surely all performances of Bach's music could equally be said to be "intelligent guesswork"?

If only!

[MrGongGong]

It's quite some time since I visited Jorvik, but there was no music - just the sounds that might have been present in a Viking settlement.

Living locally, I must visit again, now that the tourist season has abated a little.

That's what I remember from the work Trevor Wishart did
He would be the last person on earth to make cheesy viking music IMV

[jean]

Don't get me wrong, I haven't heard it BUT I would be surprised if they hadn't gone to someone who does know about these things for the sound design?

But I didn't go to the exhibition to hear any music at all. I went to look at things.

Sometimes a particular exhibit has music as a part of it, and if that's played over the gallery instead of on headphones it becomes intrusive - I remember something from the Eton Choirbook played at the Gothic exhibition, and even I had had enough after I'd heard it 25 times.

The reverse happens here. In the last section of the exhibition, which is about the modern invention of Celtic identities, there's a bit of film of Irish dancing and Scottish bands, that sort of thing. But there's no music to match; the drone continues.

And no, it doesn't help to drown out the chatter about the neighbours, or last night's dinner party, or schools...or the irritting hiss/buzz from audio guides.

I discover that the Telegraph reviewer was as irritated as I was:

...The worst thing about this exhibition is the horribly intrusive sub-Clannad mood music that throbs away throughout...this dirge-like racket seeming to become ever louder...

[doversoul1]

How do you know it's "unconnected"? I don't know anything about that music so i'm not the person to ask.
The great Trevor Wishart made the sounds for the Yorvik museum in York and did epic amounts of detailed research about languages and soundscapes as part of that process.
I would be surprised if they just got a CD of "Panpipe Moods".

If this had been the case, I expect it would have been mentioned in the programme or along the display. Beside, surely jean would have noticed the difference (I’m sure you’d have been too). Also, if it have been based on research, it would have been part of the exhibition rather and being used as BGM.

I am often surprised how little idea people have about culture-related music, even amongst brilliant professionals in the world of art.

Posted by jean

Someone's idea of a generic 'Celtic' music

Replace ‘Celtic’ with something exotic (like Japanese), you’ll get an idea .

[ed.] I suppose these days, to an awful lot of people, music is just something you have in the background whatever you are doing. Silence is as rare as people who don’t use mobile phone. And I guess it makes people uneasy, too

[Flosshilde]

I an awful repetitive dirge on some kind of primitive flute. Someone's idea of a generic 'Celtic' music, as far as I know unconnected with any actual Celtic music we know anything about.

Not intended to be music, nor is it played on a flute, but a "a soundscape of motifs from modern Celtic instruments, including bodhrán drums, bagpipes, fiddle and the flute. The idea is to make the atmosphere more relaxed, so visitors don’t just shamble round in reverent silence like culture zombies"

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/shortcuts/2015/oct/18/celtic-soundscape-horiible-pan-pipes-behind

[jean]

Thank you - I hadn't seen that!

Also from the item:

Ah. So the complainers are just hearing what they don’t want to hear? Perhaps. The fact it’s a soundscape and not an actual piece of music probably explains why they found it discordant. It may also sound a lot like pan pipes.

I think the point is that if you're used to listening to music, the concept of a soundscape that somehow relaxes you without your conscious participation is never going to work.

I was as tense as a coiled spring by the time I left.

[MrGongGong]

It does sound a bit "naff" to me
BUT there is a tradition of Soundscape composition which IS "actual" music... (though it's a much abused word IMV)

http://www.sfu.ca/~truax/scomp.html

I am often surprised how little idea people have about culture-related music, even amongst brilliant professionals in the world of art.

That's two of us at least.

An example

I find it sad that whilst abstract expressionism is very well known and popular almost no-one in the visual arts has the slightest idea about the music that is it's counterpart

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrVE-WQBcYQ

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Not intended to be music, nor is it played on a flute, but a "a soundscape of motifs from modern Celtic instruments, including bodhrán drums, bagpipes, fiddle and the flute. The idea is to make the atmosphere more relaxed, so visitors don’t just shamble round in reverent silence like culture zombies"
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/s...n-pipes-behind

I generally like The Guardian, but sometimes they do waffle on. . .

[vinteuil]

... the use of faux-celtickery at the exhibition jean visited strikes me as pretty dire.

But well-contrived 'soundscapes' can sometimes work : I remember being beguiled by Gavin Bryars' work at Oiron -

http://www.gavinbryars.com/Pages/listening_room_fr.html

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ch%C3%A2teau_d%27Oiron

"Curios & Mirabilia prend appui sur l’idée d’un autre rapport au monde, celui qui à la Renaissance privilégiait une approche sensible de la connaissance. Aussi, l’ouïe, l’odorat, le toucher, la vue et bientôt le goût, sont sollicités pour transformer la visite d’un monument historique en expérience sensorielle. Les senteurs du mur de cire de Wolfgang Laib, les sonorités de la musique de Gavin Bryars, les fauteuils de John Armleder pour le délassement du visiteur, les jeux visuels comme celui du couloir des illusions (Felice Varini) et toutes les créations réalisées pour ce château concourent à créer un parcours plein de surprises et d’émerveillements."






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