Noise or silence: who decides?

[french frank]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...e-music-noise/

So there

Not sure what that proves. It doesn't begin to answer the problem for some people of contexts where there is unwelcome sound.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...e-music-noise/

So there

A complete red herring, and not original at all.

A few questionable statements, including "The tritone is composed of the first and fourth notes of a major scale, with the latter being sharp."
What an odd and clumsy way to put it. Much better to say it's the 4th and 7th notes of the major scale.
Whether or not an individual likes a sound is personal rather than cultural. Growing up in the 50s and 60s I should, according to that logic, be fanatical about Elvis and the Rolling Stones, but I don't like either. Like so many others, I was not descended from sheep.

[MrGongGong]

Not sure what that proves. It doesn't begin to answer the problem for some people of contexts where there is unwelcome sound.

It doesn't answer the "problem"
BUT it does show how things are perceptual rather than absolute
I sometimes go to things I don't like
I've been to see art exhibitions where I hate the visual art but love the building
i've seen films where i've loved the sound design and hated the music
What is "unwelcome" is very much to do with personal perceptions of what is primary in a space and this is variable

If you really don't like music in galleries or museums take earplugs
Believe it or not I watched PART of the Proms broadcast this evening, guess which bit I decided to miss ?

[Bryn]

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...e-music-noise/

So there

Ever feel like you're banging your head against a brick wall?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

If you really don't like music in galleries or museums take earplugs

That doesn't work. Even if it did, the suggestion is a crass as suggesting someone lying on a bed of nails should stop complaining and take pain killers.

Some museums and galleries hire out listening units with headphones. Much the better way.

[french frank]

What is "unwelcome" is very much to do with personal perceptions of what is primary in a space and this is variable

I would think if you choose to go to a specific art exhibition, the 'ambient sound' is unlikely to be primary (especially not at the price you have to pay for tickets ). I think the point about personal perceptions is obvious. The 'problem' is for those people who perceive the background music/sound as unwelcome. It's not a problem for those who either don't notice it or find it enhances their experience.

But isn't this the point of the thread title? Not everyone can get their way - so who 'decides' between noise (tbd) and silence? The answer will always be the people who like noise (tbd). I agree, though: people who like to walk around without the distraction of noise (tbd) will have to carry noise cancelling equipment around with them.

[MrGongGong]

That doesn't work. Even if it did, the suggestion is a crass as suggesting someone lying on a bed of nails should stop complaining and take pain killers.

Some museums and galleries hire out listening units with headphones. Much the better way.

Having made sound installations both through loudspeakers and headphone pieces I would say that they are definitely NOT the same or even equivalent.
I've got a set of Akai S1000 Model B samples on floppy disk, go on, get rid of the daft piano and i'll send them to you to replace it with a nice sofa !
So it's NOT the "better way" unless one wants to make something with that kind of individual intimacy OR a feeling of "co-presence".
These ARE the kinds of things that are thought about very carefully when people design exhibitions and public space. Some people don't like it, which is fine BUT you can't play "pick-n-mix" with curated and composed experiences. Personally I would love to hear a certain oratorio by Elgar without the terrible text and with something more to my taste BUT I know that it's part of the work.

You analogy doesn't work.
I decide to go to the "National Gallery Somatic Bed Of Nails Exhibition" ... I can't complain if when I lie down it hurts I can choose to go somewhere else or stay at home.

Anyway, surely this is a distraction from what we should be angry about?
CLAPPING BETWEEN MOVEMENTS

[MrGongGong]

But isn't this the point of the thread title? Not everyone can get their way - so who 'decides' between noise (tbd) and silence? .

That's easy
The person who decides is the person curating the exhibition / space

As I said before, people who do this really DO think carefully about how sound is used and often employ specialists to design the sound.
When I have made sound for art exhibitions it has usually been as part of a very close collaboration with the artists involved, when it works well it's wonderful.

but, of course

Cage was right and there is no such thing as silence anyway

[french frank]

When I have made sound for art exhibitions …

So you have a parti pris in this?

Cage was right and there is no such thing as silence anyway

Under normal conditions, yes, he was right, but more or less anyone would know it's true in an absolutely literal sense. No need to go to such lengths to try to 'prove it'. But there is obtrusive sound and unobtrusve sound. And the main reason why it's unobtrusive is because it's always there and we are programmed to exclude it as not important to our lives. All Cage did was to declare it was important and we all ought to be more aware of it - and value it for what it is.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

So you have a parti pris in this?

Such a nice chap too.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

So you have a parti pris in this?

Is that what you get if you win Blind Man's Buff?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Is that what you get if you win Blind Man's Buff?

[Serial_Apologist]

Under normal conditions, yes, he was right, but more or less anyone would know it's true in an absolutely literal sense. No need to go to such lengths to try to 'prove it'. But there is obtrusive sound and unobtrusve sound. And the main reason why it's unobtrusive is because it's always there and we are programmed to exclude it as not important to our lives. All Cage did was to declare it was important and we all ought to be more aware of it - and value it for what it is.

And Cage was talking about unintended sound. It would be a shame to have an exhibition spoilt if the visual element was what one intended going for.

[MrGongGong]

It would be a shame to have an exhibition spoilt if the visual element was what one intended going for.

The person who decides is the person curating the exhibition / space

I could equally say that a few years ago my experience of the first night of the Proms was spoilt by what came after "Panic" (it was, BUT that's what happens when you go outside and let other people curate things)

[ahinton]

I could equally say that a few years ago my experience of the first night of the Proms was spoilt by what came after "Panic" (it was, BUT that's what happens when you go outside and let other people curate things)

Last night, surely?...